Soror Meral and Astrology
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Hi Jim.
I'm curious in regard to the historical perspective and I think it might make an interesting topic:
Did Soror Meral use astrology extensively? How did she feel about your work with Sidereal, in regard to its efficiency? I'm sure it was discussed -- did she ever offer her opinion? Did she experiment with both models? Did you ever discuss theories with her? I'd love to hear some of the details...and please direct me to a resource if this particular subject has been covered before.
It is my understanding that Germer used astrology quite a bit...I'm assuming he was like 666 and employed the Tropical method...passing their model of understanding to Meral. I'm assuming her training from Estai was similar.
Note: I'm not pitching one over the other...there are obvious reasons why Germer and Crowley used the Tropical (as far as I'm aware). I don't even think that the western Sidereal model was even starting to be developed at this time? I can say that pretty confidently since you've done an incredible amount of the development.
That being said, the WORLD (and the Universe
) owes you a debt of gratitute for your research and teaching of the Sidereal model. Your writing on the subject is extensive, comprehensive, and extremely helpful. Not to mention that Solunars.net is an amazing resource.Thanks.
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@Frater 639 said
"Did Soror Meral use astrology extensively?"
Yes.
"How did she feel about your work with Sidereal, in regard to its efficiency?"
As was typical of most astrologers of her generation and age, she couldn't figure out why I wanted to go mess with things, since astrology was "perfectly good the way it was" and had been handed down a long time.
In other words, she never examined the evidence and wasn't about to change her mind about something in which she had invested most of her life.
"I'm assuming her training from Estai was similar."
She had no training from Jane on astrology. She learned it on herself, and also had help from Mellinger.
"Note: I'm not pitching one over the other...there are obvious reasons why Germer and Crowley used the Tropical (as far as I'm aware)."
Yes, the primary reason being that they were ignorant of the existance of an alternative.
"I don't even think that the western Sidereal model was even starting to be developed at this time?"
The fairest birth date that's meaningful would be 1944.
"I say that pretty confidently since you've done an incredible amount of the development."
No, I don't deserve to be put in the same category as Fagan and Bradley, or anyone else on this page:
aumha.org/solunars/textsite/founders.htm"That being said, the WORLD (and the Universe
) owes you a debt of gratitute for your research and teaching of the Sidereal model. Your writing on the subject is extensive, comprehensive, and extremely helpful. Not to mention that Solunars.net is an amazing resource."Thank you
. For those things I've actually done, I happily accept your praise. -
93,
Thanks for the answers, Jim. I have a few more questions, if you'll indulge me.
@Jim Eshelman said
"In other words, she never examined the evidence and wasn't about to change her mind about something in which she had invested most of her life."
I understand this POV and am very familiar with it...since I find myself doing the same thing sometimes. But, there is something to be said for developing your own model of "observation". My difficulty is trying to isolate the "point of departure" from what I've heard you call "astromancy" -- that is, when I start to use more "intuition" in the reading, rather than the "science" of the chart itself. I guess this is where experience is the guide.
I can see how a set of symbols (in the Tropical model or otherwise) could be hard to alter after years of development, if favoring one system over the other...
Drawing charts using both models I think is invaluable. I have to say though, there seems to be much more "success" (from my own experience) using the Sidereal model -- the foreground, middlegorund, background influences seem foolproof. Comparing side-by-side is a worthy experiment to dispel the biases involved. How did you get into/go about learning the Sidereal method? What specifically sold you on the Sidereal method?
I'm sure you've indulged your own theories as to why results can be gained from both models (Tropical/Sidereal). I'd really be interested to hear what you think the factors involved are. How much influence do you think is meme or egregore? How much influence would you consider to be a more "tangible" or currently measurable factor, such as the physical conditions, atmosphere, environment, etc.? Do you think that any Tropical methods are still useful, or do you think that they just reflect information that isn't completely antiquated? Or, if you have already written on this subject, where could I find it?
@Jim Eshelman said
"No, I don't deserve to be put in the same category as Fagan and Bradley, or anyone else on this page:"
Well, I personally think you do...but maybe for different reasons. I find your writing to be extremely colloquial...not to mention, I consider you a lot like Crowley (maybe more LATER years Crowley 
) in that a HUGE strength in your writing is being able to gather and consolidate information and make it accessible, personable, and best of all, USEFUL...especially from an "Initiate's" POV.As soon as I get your books, I have to give them away, and buy them again, and then give them away. All astrology aside, there seems to be a cycle that the data reflects.
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