Question on drawing sigils for planetary intelligences

the atlas itch

On page 55 of Regardie's HOW TO MAKE AND USE TALISMANS he provides a sigil for TIRIEL, the intelligence of Mercury. I traced the name TIRIEL (Teth/9, Yod/10, Resh/2, Yod/10, Aleph/1, Lamed/30) over the Mercury kamea, but it does not resemble the sigil for TIRIEL that Regardie provides.

Can anyone explain this discrepancy?

Thanks.

Avshalom Binyamin

Because the sigils were drawn freehand by people after they were worked out on the table, and sometimes they were rotated.

Try rotating the image you see in Regardie's book 90 degrees clockwise.

For Tiriel, it ends up tracing out 9-10-20-11-30

Jim Eshelman

Best guess: There are many variations of the kameas. Of course, Regardie's sigil should match the kamea he gives in that particular book.

I have two copies of it at home on my shelf - love the book - but can't consult it from here at work. The answer might be evident at a glance... or, then again, might not. All of these remarks are "sight unseen" guesses.

I suppose you have already taken into consideration that the sigil could be rotated...

Another possibility is that the reduction is done differently than standard, for artistic or other reasons. Let's see what the variations are... For the Mercury kamea, the maximum number present is 64, so we have:

Teth = 9
Yod = 10
Resh = 200 --> 20
Yod = 10
Aleph = 1
Lamed = 30

Pretty straightforward; but if this doesn't fit, possibly the Yods are 1 (not likely next to an Aleph) or the Lamed is 3. This isn't standard, but I've seen it happen in some historic works.

Finally, knowing that the book was produced on a shoestring budget in a pre-digital age, every diagram in it was glued onto the paste-up boards. Some (maybe all?) were redrawn for the book, but some may have been photocopied from somewhere else without sufficient checking.

Takamba

Yes. I believe it is drawn on the Rose, not the Kamea

Jim Eshelman

@Takamba said

"Yes. I believe it is drawn on the Rose, not the Kamea"

That could be, too!

Takamba

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@Takamba said
"Yes. I believe it is drawn on the Rose, not the Kamea"

That could be, too!"

Nope. lol. I tried it and it isn't matching The Rose at all. But it turns out upon comparing it to Agrippa that the image has been rotated 90 degrees counter clockwise. Try that!

the atlas itch

Thanks for feedback everyone.

AvshalomBinyamin got it right - rotating it 90 degrees. What threw me was Regardie gave the value of 11 for the second Yod.

Avshalom Binyamin

@he atlas itch said

"What threw me was Regardie gave the value of 11 for the second Yod."

(I think the 11 is for the second yod and the aleph; hence the little "double hump" on that part.)

That was probably for the "artistic" or "other" reasons Jim mentioned. Otherwise, you would have had overlapping lines going back and forth, since 10, 1, and 9 are all in a straight line on that square.

the atlas itch

Yes I finally figured out that Regardie combined the values of Yod + Aleph and denoted it simply as 11.

So just to confirm, since IEL is a common ending for most intelligences, should this be traced out on kameas as separate values, namely Yod + Aleph + Lamed = 10 > 1 > 30? Or is Regardie correct in combining the values of Yod and Aleph as 11, hence IEL = 11 > 30?

I'm guessing that there is more than "artistic" reasons to Regardie's 11. Yod and Aleph fall within the first chamber. Is there some hidden rule of AIQ BEKER that permits values of letters falling within the same chambers to be combined? This odd 11 makes intuitive sense to me, but I am not aware of any explicit rule in AIQ BEKER confirming this point.