Too much, too soon?
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Thanks for taking time to answer. What you say is reassuring.
In terms of initiation, I sorry I haven't been a little clearer. I'm happy to share what I know in all areas of my life, but this is an area where I don't know anything other than that being hopeful and ignorant is always interesting. What I mean is that I'm looking for a means to progress and have no intentions of devising a system of my own. Its because I don't have any fixed expectations that what happened has surprised me.
I'm not ambitious and I'm not in a hurry. All I'm looking to do is follow an established a method, with a little experimentation as to what works for me - but even then with careful consideration regarding the experience of others.
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93,
One of the things that surprises people about doing magick is that it gets results. We feel things in the room, we get unexpected physical or psychological reactions, and so on. These manifestations need to be kept within regulated bounds, so the ego doesn't get inflated, charge off and proclaim itself as the latest Magus of the Aeon; but they also need to be allowed to manifest. The LBRP is a fine tool for managing this.
In a way, doing magick is simply a knack. It's just a rather complex one. Comprehending what exercising that knack does constitutes a long path of wisdom, since there is a whole language of symbolism to be learned along the way.
93 93/93,
Edward -
"But I am puzzled why, if you've only just started magick, you're thinking of creating a system of initiation. Most people would want .. oh, 15 or 20 years' practical experience under their belts before venturing that far. We need to make a lot of blunders and get stuck in a few blind alleys before we can really teach other people what to do.
"I think it's genetic programming to want to return back into "the cave" and free the others. It the reason the person left the cave in the first place. You know?
The idea that there are systems out there that can perfect and individual over the course of a lifetime is lost on such an individual. Even such small light as he or she has received has the potential to be revolutionary, and I think the individual senses that and tries to fulfil that original impulse unless something or someone else demonstrates a better plan for doing so or demonstrates that it is impossible or fatal (in which case, what's the point?).
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
FWIW - It is very helpful to establish a regular yoga practice - such as Asana Yoga - even if its only a little bit of time each day. The concentration involved and the training of the mind-body are extremely beneficial for the magical rituals, as well as life in general. Keeping a record of your practices is also very beneficial.
But, these are only suggestions, even if they are based on personal experience. Finding your own way is the best way...but others have been there too -- and their advice can be very valuable at times!
@Edward Mason said
"Some of the coolest stuff happens in the early days,"
So true!
@Edward Mason said
"These manifestations need to be kept within regulated bounds, so the ego doesn't get inflated, charge off and proclaim itself as the latest Magus of the Aeon; but they also need to be allowed to manifest. "
Very true! Fascination can be a problem. Balance is key. Laughing helps a lot.
Best of luck on your Path!
Love is the law, love under will.
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"Even such small light as he or she has received has the potential to be revolutionary, and I think the individual senses that and tries to fulfil that original impulse unless something or someone else demonstrates a better plan for doing so or demonstrates that it is impossible or fatal (in which case, what's the point?)."
I work in psychiatry and I always stress to patients that overcoming an illness and the increased understanding that results are not the same as being suitably trained or 'enlightened' for want of a better word. People learn lots of good things about themselves while recovering, but some experience a temptation to 'free the others' as you put it, by immediately becoming self-appointed counselors. Whatever their potential, I wouldn't call someone's recovery complete until they address that notion.
I took up my profession over 20 years ago as a care assistant in an asylum. Insofar as the experience of being a Neophyte is comparable, I was pleased to spend the early days forming positive personal relationships with the patients. It took a lot of time and orthodox training, failure and learning before I found myself in charge, or at least responsibly directing them.
@Edward Mason said
"One of the things that surprises people about doing magick is that it gets results. "
Well, yes!
I didn't and will continue to the best of my ability not to presume upon certainties. The reason I didn't presume anything is that I have a very old-fashioned UK Christian upbringing that always appears when I try something new. My grandmother put an idea in orbit around my conscience, saying that God will not give us a sign. @Frater 639 said
"
Very true! Fascination can be a problem. Balance is key. Laughing helps a lot. "I do laugh a lot as it happens! Some of these experiences have made me giggle. When life gets serious, it really is the best medicine!
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"I work in psychiatry and I always stress to patients that overcoming an illness and the increased understanding that results are not the same as being suitably trained or 'enlightened' for want of a better word. People learn lots of good things about themselves while recovering, but some experience a temptation to 'free the others' as you put it, by immediately becoming self-appointed counselors. Whatever their potential, I wouldn't call someone's recovery complete until they address that notion."
My apologies. This is a hot button for me. But no one is talking about psychiatric patients currently.
We are talking about normal individuals having normal enlightenment experiences.
That some call them abnormal and try to prevent! prevent! prevent! is the very heart of the problem.
Your thoughts?
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@Aegis55 said
"You have defined the upper end of the curve as abnormal instead of exceptional."
Well, I think the dictionaries beat the rest of us to defining abnormal as part of the tails of a bell-curve -- the bell curve being known as a "normal distrubition", and the distance from the mean being measured in number of "standard deviations" from the mean.
"ab·nor·mal
[ab-nawr-muhl] Show IPA
–adjectivenot normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard: abnormal powers of concentration; an abnormal amount of snow; abnormal behavior."
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It may be a little off topic:
After doing some biofeedback and neurotherapy research, according to one source, people in the "normal brain function" range (via EEG readings) are only 40%.
That is, what is determined the "normal" functioning range, which has to do with functionality in today's "normal" society.
(Obviously, EEG readings can't really nail down chemical synapses, individual receptors, etc. Although, they do provide general frequencies and electrical activity that correspond with general "abnormal" behavior...which can be integrated into already established psychological methods.)
Yeah, that's how we know we're linked with others. We collectively contribute to the "normal" standards, or, at least, one would hope? I'm not advocating that the standards are right or wrong, but they do exist in the medical community...
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What did you get yourself into, Marlowe? Your question seemed innocent enough!
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@Takamba said
"My question is, who here equates "abnormal" with "bad?""
That is so interesting that you brought this up, as I was thinking this earlier today...before I even read this thread.
I was thinking: generally people that practice ceremonial magick are probably considered "abnormal" (i.e. they all fit into a category of "people who practice ceremonial magick" which differs from standard behavior). What is the general opinion of this category in the medical community?
Takamba, I think we'd be officially called "bonkers". But, I'd never equate that with "bad".
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@Aegis55 said
"You have defined the upper end of the curve as abnormal instead of exceptional."
@Aegis55 said
"You just automatically thought it.
You equate it."
You see I work in psychiatry and it makes you unhappy... but you presume to know what I'm thinking? Isn't that a tad "Dear Pot, Yours sincerely, Kettle?"
I haven't defined anything... or anyone, I was making a point about a little knowledge and how I found my way very gently within a new frame of learning that most people stay away from. I was saying, clearly I thought, about not presuming one's own understanding is applicable to others, though there is value in sharing and finding those who have knowledge to offer. One of the first things I said was that I'm looking for help and good advice.
If you want to talk about exceptional, I work in a secure institution, caring for highly dangerous individuals. On top of that, I laugh while I'm working, I forget my job when I go home and I'm trying to get started with magick. I'm quite sure some of my colleagues would blink at the idea. If I were to touch this end of the bell-curve, the point would be sharp enough to cut, but it doesn't trouble me.
Psychiatry is a branch of medicine and as such deals with illness. As a service though, it deals with people, rather than say, a broken bone or a diseased lung (with all respect to sufferers and medics alike). This means it should factor in culture norms, individual choices and personal experiences. Its tricky in that the illness may well manifest and map itself onto someone's personality, which is a challenging and painstaking problem to address. People like me would prefer you to live your own life, rather than sacrifice it to social conformity. We do show concern when it hurts you though, or risks hurting other people when we believe on very ordinary grounds that you'd rather it didn't.
Treatment is a very intimate and sensitive area that operates through dialogue, empathy and taking risks. What's abnormal and what's exceptional are certainly different and both need to be understood. Abnormal is bad when it hinders what's exceptional. Exceptional is usually precious. I wouldn't use abnormality as a pathological concept unless it was volunteered for discussion and in such cases, its the patient who explores the concept as it relates to them. Its usually a negative term and my first thought would be to give it a sense of perspective. Its negative social concepts that need normalizing, not people per se.
@Aegis55 said
"When I come back.
I'll be suited up."
I'll say again, I came looking for knowledge, not ignorance. I abandoned stereotypical images a long time ago. I hope one day you'll be able to do the same.
@Frater 639 said
"What did you get yourself into, Marlowe? Your question seemed innocent enough!
"I'm not sure. My question is innocent and so am I. I'm not interested in getting into an argument thats irrelevant to my query, but I won't suffer my good character being assaulted on a first post.
And if anyone's still interested in my original question, I'd love to hear from you.
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Ahem...
For clarification for those who seem to require it constantly...
You have accepted his premise like a plague on your island.
"What did I say wrong?"
"I didn't say that."
You either trust this dog's nose, or you don't.
Period.
But that's up to you and your universe. I've spent a long time kicking the ass of those automatic assumptions out of my life and off my island. You make them work for their verbal power over you. You don't just...
Nevermind... That's what I mean.
It passes over me and around me, but I am not a part of this kind of thinking. It will not take root in me.
I touch my finger to the ground.
I am a pillar in the temple of my God.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Love is the law; love under will. -
Tell me, Doc. How would you interpret it if someone sent you this simple poem with some Cajun dialect in it?
Warrior Gene
Oh EuGEEEEENE....!
Hey, Eugene...!
Where are you, Genie?
Everybody's lookin' for you,
Talkin' 'bout activatin' you,
You really ought to get in there,
And speak for yo-self.Captain A?
Captain Who?
Captain A?
Captain Who?
Who you trying to train, che'?
Careful, might reveal a thing or two.Send them Eff'Kin cops,
Cap'm A don't care.
Hell, dey need to know.
Beast's a stirrin' agin'.
Hell, the kids are doin' it.
Don't know what dey found.
Know they wanna be free though.Callin' it up from deep.
Want the truth to prevail.
Gonna uncover it all.
They wanna do it right
With a passion we ain't
Seen in a while.But can they?
Do they know the stories?
No.
Do they know the math?
Yes.
Do they know the tests?
No.
Do they know the tradition?
No.
They just wakin' on up.
Managin' it wit dey high
And low.
Powerful angry though.
Ain't dat de story?
Ain't dat de tale?Careful.
What you gon' say?I gon' say, "First you make de roux..
And I'm tellin' you,
'Cause I don't wanna have to tell a foo'.
What else is the' to do?"