Devekut and Tzimtzum
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Jim Eshelman said
"A minor tweak, though maybe this is more shading. I would characterize ego-dissolution as part of dhyana, although intellect-suspension is certainly a characteristic. I can't distinguish dhyana from crossing the threshold from Yetziratic to Briatic consciousness.
Another point that I don't see made ever, but I think is impotant: Dharana as a practice is the practice of concentration etc. But when the "8 limbs" are mentioned sequentially, it can't reasonably be the sixth step (more like the first!), and doesn't at all fit inclusion in the triad of samyama. Weneed to distinguish dharana as a practice from dharana as a result (much as Crowley did, at some length, for pratyahara). Dharana as a sixth limb of raja yoga I would have to translate as concentratedness, the state in which attention flows straight to the selected object without disturbance. Possibly only a fine distinction but, I think, an important one.
This state of concentratedness is the natural precursor do dhyana."
Thank you. I had a little confusion between Dharana as the practice vs Dharana as the state in the company of Dhyana and Samadhi. This helps.
There's also the Jewish use of the word Da'ath to refer to the skill "concentratedness". In this context, I've read it spoken of as the union of Chokmah and Binah, but these last two terms seem to refer to Insight and Intellect, respectively, rather than the Sephiroth. Which sounds to me as Da'ath, "concentratedness" , as the point of union between Briah and Yetzirah.
Assuming I'm understanding and stating that concept correctly, does that at all correspond to Dharana as the state?
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
It's a little hard for me to map that decisively... can't say it sounds wrong, just not quite certain it sounds right.
Skipping to one piece of your post, one scaling of the Tree would, indeed, show Da'ath as the transition point between Yetzirah and Briah (between the Vav and the Heh in The Name).
I could go round in circles on the bigger question you asked. For example, I don't think of dharana as a bringing of insight, because of the narrowness of the attention. OTOH, I certainly see insight as an occasional consequence of the sort of "out of the usual box" mental processes of dharana (in a similar sense to "sleeping on" a questilon, since one suspends and the other distracts the self-conscious rational processes).
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Jim Eshelman said
"The ego certainly can be stunned momentarily by dhyana; but that's mostly a stunning of the intellect and reactive faculties."
93
Exactly. Stunning is a good word.
Temp dissolution of the 'I' and 'mine' notion (ahamkara), however, only happens in samadhi. Cognitive functions are shut down, only ................. remain.
*sama *- one with, *adhi *- absolute.93 93/93
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Dar es Allrah said
"
@Frater INRI said
"Temp dissolution of the 'I' and 'mine' notion (ahamkara), however, only happens in samadhi. "Untrue. The formless states of dhyana are also characterised by a loss of 'I', and a unity with all. It really depends on who you read on which continent though. "
A good orgasm will give "temporary dissolution of the 'I'," if you don't concern yourself with how long "temporary" is.
Dar, I'm using the term only as in classic Hindu literature (just to be clear about word usage / definitions).
"People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."
Indeed!
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Dar es Allrah said
"The formless states of dhyana are also characterised by a loss of 'I', and a unity with all. "
Yep, formless state of dhyana can be equal to samadhi.
We are talking of the same thing here, I believe. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
"People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."
Indeed!"
Ehm, "losing the sense of I and Mine" is not the same as samadhi, in my opinion (it seems we are talking about the different thing here).
I lose the sense of pretty much everything while driving a very well known route, for example. But that doesn't even come close to the inner bliss, peace and LVX experienced in samadhi. -
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Frater INRI said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"
"People lose a sense of 'I' and mine all the time, even when they aren't consciously trying in meditation."Indeed!"
Ehm, "losing the sense of I and Mine" is not the same as samadhi, in my opinion (it seems we are talking about the different thing here)."
Exactly! That's what I've been saying
"Strike! O, take me now, in an instant. Strike! with the passionate strength of thy love to overwhelm this silly thought I have of Thee, this struggling artifice. Flood the channels of my nerves with the lightning current of Thyself." - Liber Amoris vel Calicis, v. 17
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Jim Eshelman said
""Strike! O, take me now, in an instant. Strike! with the passionate strength of thy love to overwhelm this silly thought I have of Thee, this struggling artifice. Flood the channels of my nerves with the lightning current of Thyself." - Liber Amoris vel Calicis, v. 17"
Lovely Jim, sweet indeed.
Can the Liber in question be found anywhere in its entirety, pls?
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Dar es Allrah said
"Hellenism or Revelation... that is the question....
Apparently..
Not.
And..
Yet..."93
<smile>
93 93/93
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
@Frater INRI said
"Can the Liber in question be found anywhere in its entirety, pls?"
Along with some of my old poetry here: aumha.org/a/poems.htm
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.
Thank you, Jim.
This touched my heart, striking deeply :
10. I am alone, in a cold, grey, desolate land. There is no other to be found, no companion to ease the going. Yet Thou art the Light I bear (even when I know it not), and the strong, single staff that supporteth me.
and yet:
16. Think not to hide from me, O belovéd One, in thy grotesqueries. I see Thee behind thy mask. It is thy lovely body which I love beneath these motley veils, this midnight comedy; for there is none other than Thee to my eyes, my taste, my touch.
93
Simply red.
93 93/93
-
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I came across the term devekut (wiki) while reading Dan Cohn-Sherbok's introduction to The Dictionary of Kabbalah and Kabbalists. I found devekut and Luria's tzimtzum (wiki) to be the most fascinating aspects of the read as a whole.
While the this is all new to me, I thought someone here maybe has explored these terms further in their original context or otherwise. To me, devekut seems to explicitly echo of dharana. I wonder if perhaps tzimtzum also does likewise as dhyana, but nothing in my reading suggests that tzimtzum is something that humans do. From what I understand, tzimtzum is to be understood as more of a "big bang" of sorts; a Primum Mobile, if you will.
Maybe I'm totally off on all of this to some of you. I'm interested in reading what you have to say. Any suggestions for further reading or similar aspects found in other religions is always very helpful.
Thank you.
Love is the law, love under will.