Intoning/Vibrating the Divine Names
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Another question I have about "Attah Gibbor le-Olahm Adonai" is when it comes to vibration, is this entire statement broken up like "AH-DOH-NAH-YEE," or just Adonai? Like with the archangels how "before me, behind me, etc." is normal and just the names are specially vibrated.
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@00000 said
"Another question I have about "Attah Gibbor le-Olahm Adonai" is when it comes to vibration, is this entire statement broken up like "AH-DOH-NAH-YEE," or just Adonai? Like with the archangels how "before me, behind me, etc." is normal and just the names are specially vibrated."
Yes. Broken up one syllable at a time. Yes, the words are spoken normal, you only vibrate the divine names.
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@00000 said
"Another question I have about "Attah Gibbor le-Olahm Adonai" is when it comes to vibration, is this entire statement broken up like "AH-DOH-NAH-YEE," or just Adonai?"
It tends to be vibrated more briskly, more like a sentence rather than even syllables, until the Adonai (which then gets the full treatment). I'm not sure I've ever heard A.G.L.A. (by which I mean the whole sentence) ever done letter-by-letter. Two syllables, two syllables, three syllables, then let her rip letter by letter on Adonai.
A good guide is that each Divine Name takes about the same amount of time and breath. Therefore, Eheyeh is more drawn out, Attah Gibbor le-Olahm Adonai is a said more briskly. (I just timed myself at my own normal pace, and Eheyeh took 6 seconds, A.G.L.A. took 8. (The other two take me 5 or 6 seconds.)
"Like with the archangels how "before me, behind me, etc." is normal and just the names are specially vibrated."
Exactly. (Or the textual part has a different quality of voice, a slightly chanty, resonant form.) If using melodic vibration (each Hebrew letter receiving its corresponding note), then the textual parts are chanted on a C-natural (for red).
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They have their own material, often not standard. (That's not a criticism or a compliment per se. <g>)
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@Dar es Allrah said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"They have their own material, often not standard. (That's not a criticism or a compliment per se. <g>)"Lol. Is that Motta's lineage behind the library?"
No, I don't think there's any main cross-over. (Could be wrong.) Here's the registration information for the domain ownership:
Aeonic Systems N Khuit Box 1087 Port Alberni British Columbia V9Y 7L9 Canada -
@Jim Eshelman said
"It tends to be vibrated more briskly, more like a sentence rather than even syllables, until the Adonai (which then gets the full treatment). I'm not sure I've ever heard A.G.L.A. (by which I mean the whole sentence) ever done letter-by-letter. Two syllables, two syllables, three syllables, then let her rip letter by letter on Adonai.
"Thank you. Between this and the other thread Avshalom Binyamin pointed me to, I'm good. I really appreciate all the help and information.
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Why? "Fourfold" means there are four parts. There are four words in Atah Gibor Le-Olahm Adonai.
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@Avshalom Binyamin said
"Why? "Fourfold" means there are four parts. There are four words in Atah Gibor Le-Olahm Adonai."
Then four four-lettered names.
It seems, to me, that the full sentence breaks the harmony of the ritual, so I use to vibrate AGLA, although keeping in mind the full significance. -
I think the idea of four four-fold Names is an interpretation that might not be inherent in the ritual. It's nice, symmetrical, cool-seeming - but that might not be the most important thing.
(It IS there, as Av said, in the sense that the notariqon refers to two words.)
There is a more important point: These four Names all relate, by their numeration, to the inherent geometry of the Pentagram (which is all based on the Fibonacci series of numbers, the basic geometric formula for the actual structure of things in nature). As Heh-final (relating circumferentially to the Vav at the center), the pentagram is particularly a formula of nature (and its relationship to other levels). I leave as a puzzle for you to solve the numeric relationship of each nmame (it's not too hard if you understand the basic arithemtic of the Fibonacci series, and the geometry of a pentagram) - but Attah Gibbor le-Olam Adonai (= 858) is the punchline!
Every line, every stroke, of making a correctly proportioned pentagram is a declaration that "the lesser is to the greater as the greater is to the whole." Every tracing similarly affirms the identity and reality of the Holy Guardian Angel, anchored by those four Hebrew Names.
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You're welcome to do it as you like, and yes, there is a superficial harmony to 4, 4-lettered names. However, when it comes to the deeper harmony of the ritual, 858 is much more harmonious than 35...
(EDIT: redundant cross-post; for some reason it didn't show Jim's post before I posted mine.)
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To say the LBRP is un-Thelemic is akin to saying the Great Work is un-Thelemic.
Another distinction I like to make:
They are not Hebrew God-Names.
They are names of God written in Hebrew.One must recall the notion that while you may be saying "X" you should be thinking, visualizing "X" as the principle you hold in the highest.
Thus I would advise you not get hung up on the word,
A word is the key to the gate of its meaning. -
@Dar es Allrah said
"When I use hebrew then I use a tongue that is strongly ... there is no stronger... a tongue of patriarchy: therefore - old aeonic. I doubt the jews mind too much though."
In recent centuries, yes. But I'm not at all convinced that it's inherently so.
There was a strong matrilinear thread through the earliest Hebrew - just as there is a compelling matrilineal thread through Hebrew culture. Hebrew was as subjectedf to an invasive patriarchy as the rest of Asia. Its scriptures still show the whole of creation being accomplished by the supreme female aspect of god, Elohim.
Now, I can totally understand that Hebrew strikes you as the strongest of the patriarchal languages, and I respect how you feel about it. I'm only disputing that it's either originally or inherently so. There's deep sexual polarity in the Hebrew language and scriptures, just as sexual polarity is at the root of the deep Hebrew mysteries of the tabernacle and of the most persistent and cherished customs of worship in Judaism today. (The joining of husband and wife sexually is the greatest grace of the sabbath observance.)
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Shekinah has always been explicitly feminine.
Elohim is recognized as the Mother as far back as the Zohar, and can be found attributed to Binah for about 1,00-1,300 years before that (that I can trace).
There are others, but those are the big ones.
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To do it without any at all, you'd have to rewrite the ritual. To do it with a mix of gender names, there are more options.
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Eheyeh for Kether/Air. Y.H.V.H. (or Yah) for Chokmah/Fire. Elohim for Binah/Water. Shekiynah for Malkuth/Earth. This plays off the "roots" of each element.
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Per the Zohar (in contrast to Hermetic Qabalah), Biynah is Fire and Hakhmah Water. By some assessments, Shekiynah refers to the entire middle pillar. So (only giving myself 30 seconds to think of an answer: Elohiym Fire, Yah Water, Shekiynah Air, Adonai Earth.
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@Dar es Allrah said
"But what about if I want to address my HGA with names that are Fire & Air = Feminine and Water & Earth = Masculine?"
with the warning that i am no expert on hebrew, and also in the knowledge that this shall pale into insignificance in comparison with james' genius of supernal attribution just there
in the supreme ritual of the pentagram, the water and earth names are indeed masculine ("el" and "adonai"), while that of fire is "elohim", and air is yhvh, and perhaps an argument can be made for that being 50/50 (father/mother/son/daughter).
some further (and very possibly incorrect) thoughts, the divine name attributed to venus (and venus is related to the element of fire), is yhvh tzabaoth. the ending -oth is a plural for feminine words, i think. likewise, another divine name "eloah" is in a feminine form (this one is interestingly attributed to the sun and even more surprisingly to mars)...
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you are most welcome! certainly gender inequality - manifesting as all forms of sexism and chauvinism in every area of life from the most conventionally sacred to the mundane - is absolutely old-aeon garbage which needs desperately to be thrown out... we, humanity, still are a bit of distance off true equality, and both women AND men still need to fight for women's rights. as vivekananda said, "the bird of humanity cannot fly with one wing."
maybe we can even evenually reach the point where we aren't constrained by gender roles and traits which aren't actually biological in basis (despite the consensus opinions of most), but are just inherited junk from socio/political/religious control systems.the qabalastic model is actually quite useful in many ways (though it may not seem that way at first), fire relates to venus, and both "elohim" and "eloah" can be attributed to mars. as far as i can tell, the energies of these spheres can often transcend the gender of the individual, and the magician, regardless of their gender, can find the way to work with them both. it's rather like how emotional traits, or specific strengths and weaknesses of personality, are often considered to be gender specific, but they are not at all in reality (e.g. i have encountered both women who are aggressive or coldly logical and men who are overly romantic or irrational - those traits have nothing to do with gender in reality but for some reason a great number of people still buy into the illusion that they there are almost biologically hardwired)
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I'm not at all sure that grammatical gender translates into deity gender.
The most obvious example us the feminine form Yhvh (Y'hovah, or whatever).
And eloah (either ALVH of ALH) means "god," and despite its feminine grammatic form is masculine, whereas the identically spelled, but differently pointed, elah (ALH) is feminine both in grammatic gender and is feminine in meaning, i.e., "goddess."
