Vision of the HGA vs. KCHGA
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@Al-Shariyf said
"Here's where things get dicey: A voice, MY voice, says "You ain't got nothing on me." However, it wasn't the voice of my regular internal dialogue. It was a clear, firm, authoritative voice and the location of voice came from above and behind me. "
That's not far from my experience at all, though it definitely wasn't my voice. It had a beautiful, almost bell-like quality to it. The sense of calm, clear authority was beyond anything I've heard before or since, except for my second experience with it, which occurred in a dream, actually. Even in a dream the voice was unmistakable, and clear far beyond any lucid dream I've experienced (and this particular dream was not even lucid). Reflecting on it now, it feels like the voice was not really in the dream at all, but outside of it. The only metaphor that comes to mind is that it would be like watching TV and being more or less fully absorbed in what you're watching when suddenly the sound is muted and the last line of dialogue is filled in by someone standing directly behind you. So it was integrated in the sense of fitting coherently into the narrative, but also completely outside of it. In a way that's not a bad metaphor for how it felt the first time, either, but the distinction between the two levels was perhaps not as (noticeably) sharp.
"I still have no idea what it was. I try not to attach any undue significance to it. It was a pretty cool experience though. "
It's been said before, but has it changed your life in any way? Has it helped you along your path?
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"The only metaphor that comes to mind is that it would be like watching TV and being more or less fully absorbed in what you're watching when suddenly the sound is muted and the last line of dialogue is filled in by someone standing directly behind you. So it was integrated in the sense of fitting coherently into the narrative, but also completely outside of it. In a way that's not a bad metaphor for how it felt the first time, either, but the distinction between the two levels was perhaps not as (noticeably) sharp."
That's pretty awesome....and interesting!
"It's been said before, but has it changed your life in any way? Has it helped you along your path?"
Yeah it has. Incidents like this keep me seeking the palace of Gold
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When i was 19 years old i began experimenting with magick. I moved to my mothers garage, built a temple and started practicing regular rituals, meditation and reading. I frequented the local library and found a book that spoke of the need to find your 'True will'. After about 3 months one day i asked myself- i wonder what is my True will. That night during sleep i had an extremely intense experience. After 30 years i have never spoke of this.
Now is the first time. I was visited by my angel, she wore blue, with golden hair, there was wind about, she sat floating. This was not just any normal vision- this was an experience- not just me envisioning a regular spirit- this was an intense- dramatic experience and one that is never to be forgotten and to leave me in ore for the rest of my life. The experience had a certain shock on my nervous system, the most relevant thing about it was this all encompassing sense of BEAUTY. It was not so much that she was beautiful but a sense of beauty, of eternity, a sense of true belonging, that this is the place to be, that this is what i am. She spent a minute speaking to me- her hands waved about - then i asked her 'what is my true will' - a strange wall came down and i was forbidden to hear what she had to say. The vision faded away.
later i realized that i had had visions of her when i was 5 years old, again at 16, and also i had glimpses of here later in life- however, never never as intense of that night. It is something you will never forget.
I consider this experience a vision of the HGA.Not to be confused with K&C, which occurred some 13 years later. My personal definition is the bringing of your inner light to full outer waking consciousness. That experience for me, i will always see in terms of 'light' as i had many experiences with the light during the 10 months trance. It seems that the Ruach is aligned with the yechida, your completely square up with yourself, you join with your inner self and properly manifest the light. Eckard Toll describes it very well. I don't think K&C is 'conversation ' per sa, but rather illumination to full outer waking consciousness. A state of loosing all false perceptions of yourself, of seeing the whole picture, of absorbing your soul into ego self. Of returning to the original intended state. Fullfiling your purpose.
Q
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yes. Love isn't emotion. (Certainly not in the sense of the reactive patterns we usually call "emotions.")
Love isn't emotion. It's inspiration."
Yep, I like that description.
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@Dar es Allarah said
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Leary explored and expounded on the same idea. He did some nice work on it."Leary?
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That book he mentioned, btw, is one of my favorite books on personality theory. It dates from around 1950 and is IIRC based on research he did through the Kaiser Foundation. I had a hand in keeping it in print through seeing it would stay part of certain academic programs back in the late '70s or very early '80s.
Tim could come across as very detached, removed. He was actually a deeply loving person (well, with a quirky temper to match his quirky sense of humor). He had the capacity to be deeply moved, but tended to keep himself pretty protected (maybe just 'celebrity shieldind' or a sort - but it always felt to me that he felt things more strongly than most people, was automatically picking up on several psychic levels, and that this made contact with people fairly intense for him - perhaps especially non-intimates, but certainly even small clusters of people he didn't really know).
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From his horoscope, he was probably always on the high-strung edge (and, even late in life, he could release that as very dynamic energy and charisma that wouldn't quit - I have a funny story to tell sometime about a champagne bottle). But I'm pretty sure his extensive LSD (etc.) use stripped away a lot of natural protection. He didn't outwardly (that I ever saw) indulge in the sort of "not connecting & don't see me!" behavior most people use routinely. Some of his chemical use may actually have left his nervous system a little raw (though, again, I think that predisposition or actuality was there all his life - Aquarius Moon closely conjunct Uranus).
I think he had just blown most of the blinders off a long time before, and therefore was responding (with awareness) to far more than most people consciously detect.
Most people are more likely to associate that kind of sensitivith with Alpert, rather than Leary; but seeing the two of them fall into a hug with each other (after a long time of not seeing each other) was incredibly beautiful. They were both "all in" with each other, seems to me.
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Dar and Frater INRI, I wouldn't go so far as to say "Emotions are all based on fear." I wouldn't say that it was too far from the mark, but to relate them all to "fear" might give us permission to discredit our emotional body (which does serve several purposes). I would say "emotions are signs of dis-ease or imbalance," but not necessarily fear. Of course, I guess you could argue that a "lack of fear" or a resulting "realizing I had no need to fear" (aka happy thoughts) is "based on fear," but I think that's a stretch.
I like Crowley's concept that consciousness is a sign of "dis-ease," that we aren't exactly conscious of ourselves (or something) until it creates a disturbance. Lack of ease is not exactly equal to fear.
Just sayin'
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@Dar es Allarah said
"Timothy Leary - yes. He was a psychiatrist and I read an important paper by him when I was younger... 'The Politics of Ecstasy':"
Most of the stuff this guy wrote is pure bullsh*t to me.
@Dar es Allarah said
"I think he was going a bit black and white with his argument there actually. I recall the rest being better quality when he get's over the tirade. It sounds as if he's against emotions but I think all he's saying is that they aren't the be all and end all. One of the reasons why I like Mozart is his emotional passion is mixed perfectly with his love and his genius - fuelling it and thrusting the animal forth to make from it a God...
The emotions can be any which way but they need to chime and synchronise with the rest. With Mozart - he shows us how."
In my life, emotions (anger, sadness etc...) are fueled by unfulfilled needs, that's all. Nothing wrong or right about them.
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@Takamba said
"Dar and Frater INRI, I wouldn't go so far as to say "Emotions are all based on fear." "
I did not side with the guy who wrote that "Emotions are all based on fear."
That's pure nonsense, IMO.@Takamba said
"I wouldn't say that it was too far from the mark, but to relate them all to "fear" might give us permission to discredit our emotional body (which does serve several purposes). I would say "emotions are signs of dis-ease or imbalance," but not necessarily fear. Of course, I guess you could argue that a "lack of fear" or a resulting "realizing I had no need to fear" (aka happy thoughts) is "based on fear," but I think that's a stretch.
"I agree.
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@Dar es Allarah said
"
I really got off on it in my 20's. It was raw and exactly what I needed at the time. Sometimes it's a much as how people say things as what they say that gives you the rocket fuel. Crowley was good at that too.
"I see.
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@Frater INRI said
"In my life, emotions (anger, sadness etc...) are fueled by unfulfilled needs, that's all."
Really, all of them? What about love, joy, wonder?
@Frater INRI said
"Nothing wrong or right about them."
Doesn't that depend on what you mean with right or wrong? As was said above, emotions are communication channels which interlink certain parts of one's psychoastralsomatic organism with each other - wouldn't it make more sense to bolster those communications instead of viewing them as something inherently needy, incomplete, and, looking at your choice of examples, negative?
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@Simon Iff said
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Really, all of them? What about love, joy, wonder?
"Emotion is astral energy, and astral love and joy and wonder will eventually dry out or turn into its opposite, IMO.
Deeper reality, a transpersoanl one, will never dry out, it will expand.
@Simon Iff said
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Doesn't that depend on what you mean with right or wrong? As was said above, emotions are communication channels which interlink certain parts of one's psychoastralsomatic organism with each other - wouldn't it make more sense to bolster those communications instead of viewing them as something inherently needy, incomplete, and, looking at your choice of examples, negative?"Indeed.
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@Frater INRI said
"Emotion is astral energy, and astral love and joy and wonder will eventually dry out or turn into its opposite, IMO.
Deeper reality, a transpersonal one, will never dry out, it will expand."
I agree, and you did agree to my second assumption, but I would also claim that one nearly always needs to be based and grounded on the other here. Metaphorically said, the human on the beast, the god on the human, and even later all three intergrated into one great beast.
Integrated as such, if and when the abovementioned three are rigged into the transpersonal, they need not dry out or turn around, but can also continue evolving and thereby expanding.
One thing I have come to see as a big hurdle on any path of evolution is the idea that once a certain level - however this is formulated - has been reached, this often produces the idea that all lower levels have now somehow become unnescessary or at least uninteresting. But human (and probably transhuman) nature is better modelled as a pyramid than a tower - in my opinion. The higher the top is, the broader one has to make the basis and the middle echelons.
Or at least this is how I see it.
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Emotions are one of the most powerful central mechanisms of the physche. they are out 'flight or fight' response, with out which we would never have come down out of the trees. Emotions is what riases children, communicates with other, makes us social animals- it is all about emotions.
You can always tell how mature somebody is by looking at their emotional intelligence. Emotions are all. Every read Danial Golemans Book 'Emotional intelligence'? It virtually changed the way i thought of the human psycho-sexual- emotional- spiritual system. His work also changed the way many neurologists around the work thought, as well as physiologists.
All emotional energy emanates form the reptilian brain- and it is our task to filter it, to control it through the Neo cortex. this is the great challange of personal growth. Emotions are used in ritual, evokation and magick in general. Every body here knows what happens if you are in a bad frame of mind in a ritual.
Oh and go Leary GO. what a fantastic aid to clairvoyance, just the best. If you can find it, then go mushrooms and last but not least ' Acorus Graminous'.
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Something that I believe that is important to observe is that most reactive emotions are no more than reactions to psychological events as if they where physical events.
For example, when someone offends you, your mind (and your body) reacts as if it had the power to physically injure you. The activation of “fight or flight” mechanism is this situation shows how misplaced the reaction can be.
In other words, the Nephesh reacts to events on the realm of Ruach as if they were his concern. Maybe we can say that this is a natural “confusion of planes”.
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@Faus said
"Something that I believe that is important to observe is that most reactive emotions are no more than reactions to psychological events as if they where physical events."
Yes!
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@Simon Iff said
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One thing I have come to see as a big hurdle on any path of evolution is the idea that once a certain level - however this is formulated - has been reached, this often produces the idea that all lower levels have now somehow become unnescessary or at least uninteresting. But human (and probably transhuman) nature is better modelled as a pyramid than a tower - in my opinion. The higher the top is, the broader one has to make the basis and the middle echelons.Or at least this is how I see it."
Well said, IMO.
As far as astral emotions are concerned, as far as I can see now, they are here, where else. Nowhere else to go.
But...deeper reality is so much more...ummm...sweet? that astral dimension fades away in shame.
Nothing wrong with that, though. -
@Faus said
"Something that I believe that is important to observe is that most reactive emotions are no more than reactions to psychological events as if they where physical events.
For example, when someone offends you, your mind (and your body) reacts as if it had the power to physically injure you. The activation of “fight or flight” mechanism is this situation shows how misplaced the reaction can be.
In other words, the Nephesh reacts to events on the realm of Ruach as if they were his concern. Maybe we can say that this is a natural “confusion of planes”."
Very well put, Faust.
Even modern science, namely cognitive neurobiology and neuropsychology affirms that "life" is happening between the ears, not out there.
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Good thinking 99-- isn't that the basics of magick.
The initiate feels there is an 'outside ' world, while hte adept knows it all comes from within.
q