Liber Al Cipher 666 Tablet / English Qabalah

Jason R

"
"How can we exclude a solution simply because others would be required to accept the subjective choices of its originator?
"

Begs the question of what a solution is.

It's like saying, "How can we exlude a mathematical formula just because it doesn't make any sense unless you're a Christian?"

If I have to be Christian for a mathematical formula to make sense, it isn't a mathematical formula.

If I have to place faith in the person who solved a riddle instead of being able understand it, I have no business giving importance to riddles."

A solution is of course the answer to a problem. In this case, the answer to the riddles hidden in Liber Al, specifically the secret of the pasting of the sheets, and the English Qabalah. In addition making sense to many other mysterious verses, that point to a hidden answer.

Im not sure I get your analogy, the "mathmatical formula" aka my theory (method), doesnt require a change in belief systems. Your a Thelemite. Im a Thelemite. You understand the fundamental concepts of Qabalah, and Thelemic and magical theory and techniques, as I do, and probably better.

Therefore, this does not require one to abandon "Thelemic" or "magical" reason or points of view etc. But simply to accept the individual inspiration that LED to a process (formula) that further leads to a reasonable answer.

Do you feel, besides the subjective choices, that the system/theory itself is flawed or unworkable somehow? That IT alone, forgetting about HOW it was derived, has no merit or worth? If so, how or what are your reasons?

Otherwise, I am stumped how you justify rejecting ANY solution that is valid, simply based on how particular symbols influenced another.

Your not placing faith in a person. Of course Awaiss etc., works through us, directing us. IF a solution comes, its not from that personality or person, but as you said, thier Higher Genius or HGA, right? Wouldnt ANY solution come from a person? Look at Frater Achad! You accept AL as the universal key to the Book of the Law dont you?

93 93/93

Bereshith

Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own criteria.

Jason R

@Bereshith said

"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."

I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.

93 93/93

Bereshith

@Daegal said

"
@Bereshith said
"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."

I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.

93 93/93"

Well, I can agree with that, so we probably just kind of verbally missed each other toward the end there.

Jason R

@Bereshith said

"
@Daegal said
"
@Bereshith said
"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."

I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.

93 93/93"

Well, I can agree with that, so we probably just kind of verbally missed each other toward the end there.

"

93 Bereshith,

Thank you. Yes, I agree, as I state at the beginning, its up to every individual to ultimately decide. Im not here to "declare" anything other than a possible solutuon.

My "argument" was simply on the assertion any solution that "requires one to accept anothers subjective choices" should be tossed out.

I was qualifying a "valid" & reasonable/plausable solution as still viable REGARDLESS of how the symbols etc., inspired them.

IF a technique unfolds from that inspiration - that is valid in its own right, yielding a plausable answer, it should be condidered.

I feel, this idea here is of that caliber.
However, I whole heartedly agree with you, one should only accept what they understand, and use descretion.

93 93/93

Jason R

@Dara Allarah said

"Hey Daegal, I was thinking over your work this morning and I had a sudden flash of inspiration about 666. When we work in base 7 - the Septenary - then 666 is the highest number of the hundreds before 1000. I was wondering if the English Qabalah isn't meant to work in Base 10 but in Base 7? Or maybe base 8... as 777 too seems to have a lot of significance to Crowley - the seal of Babalon etc. The point is these two values, being at the end of each base's hundred values, are a bit like values for something that is the most fully manifested. Like an Amen!

666 is the fully manifested Solar Energy. 777 is the fully manifested Temple. etc.

Just a thought!

Btw - I very much agree with you about how personal intuition and inspiration lead to solutions of general significance. Issac Newton had a personal experience with an Apple falling on his head that lead to the Theory of Gravity... but some of the guys around here at the moment would have told him he was rubbish and wrong and shouldn't have given the apple falling on his head any significance. Then they probably would have asked him for citations for his theory of Gravity too!

Respect!"

Hello Dar,

93

Thank you for the thought. However, as you say for your theory, its not US that decides lol. What I mean by that is; most of this theory Im displaying is already there. Or it "feels" like it is. So, the letters already have values, arrived at by simply reducing the "order" numbers. I try not to "fiddle" with anything too much.

I try to stay away from methods such as "D = Daleth, and Daleth is the Empress thus Venus, and so D = 7." Etc., because THAT is just me threshing out connections. Arbitrary, and not concrete. And if a theory is built solely on that sort of "subjective reasoning" then its shaky.

Others can do that, with even my system, on their own for personal exploration & insights.

So, your idea is interesting, but if its not already evident, I cant "change" it to reflect a particular base, or what have you.

Its interesting that, before I discovered this idea, (formula), I revered the number 93. I found it shocking, and curious when I found all the relevent numbers somewhere in this Tablet; 666,418,56,31,25,26,14,5,6,0 - but NOT a 93 anywhere! Wasnt what I expected. I feel somehow thats good, that it DIDNT have, in a lot of ways what I expected or wanted.

A lot is out of MY hands. Pasting these sheets etc., doing a little adding, thats pretty much IT. I feel more like im simply assembling a peice of furniture from Ikea - following a set of directions than deciding anything.

Respect.

93 93/93

Jason R

I thought I should clarify a few aspects, and add further to this theories use of the "keys" of verse 3.47, and justification on how they were interpreted and applied.

"this line drawn"

Describing how the line was drawn, is the key. Notice the verse says "this line drawn", using the word "drawn" seems to - well draw attention to it.

If we use a pages sides as our reference points, we could say:

"left to right and top to bottom" &
"right to left and bottom to top."

We could say "diagonally, left to right", however I feel Awaiss knew once the diviner realized the simularity, they would "get it", and know what words were meant to inspire.

It hints at both English, and a flipping of the pasting of the sheet arrangement. Which, at this step is "failing" to be squared.

The "circled squared", points out to use the English to propely square it.

The "circle squared in its failure" has many layers of meaning, however, all link to 26.

The first clue of this symbol, is its definite relation to the number 26, and hence an additional hint at the English Alphabet, elswhere mentioned in Liber Al.

David Allen Hulse, in his book entitled "The Key of it All", mentions this number and its relationship to the squaring of the circle:

"The Squaring of the Circle. As the Hermetic mathmatical puzzle of the squaring of the circle, 26 is the value of the circle and the square combined: the circle is 22 (in light of pi being 22/7) while the square is 4. Thus the circle and square conjoined is 26. This numbering also applies to any symbol combining a circle with
a cross (which is also valued at 4)."

Sub layer: Hidden justification for the method of mirroring & reducing?

Among all these clues, is perhaps another describing the method of reducing & mirroring the graph. The circle is the cards, ROTA, the wheel that surrounds the "cross". The cross could be seen as all four sides of the Tablet, equalibriated. If we look at the glyph this way, the cross unites four sides of this "circle", a mirror of a macrocosmic set, and a macrocosmic set. Could this "wheel" turn? Or is the cross a symbol of equalibriating each square with its opposite? Its possible, and either way it inspired the idea in me to experiment, as I feel the word "behold", found at the end of verse 3:73 implies.

The cross, also of course suggests addition if taken as a "plus sign". The circle around this addition sign then could then describe using addition with the cards, and why would experimentation in adding in various ways be excluded? Reducing is taking addition to its final limit, and a cross could be taken as a symbol of reducing as well, as Hadit, the infinitely contracting rood.

The cross also suggests the reflection, as a mirrored graph because a cross is a mirror. Each arm a reflection of an opposite polarity, East vs. West, North - South etc. Again, its possible, and either way, I dont feel its too much of a stretch to see this as a seed of inspiration.

In the end, it works, and so there can be said, at least in some respect, "success". Success in terms of a valid, functional system, that produces instantly important Thelemic numbers, as well as being congruent with various Thelemic ideas and verses.

Lastly, Abrahadabra fits in perfectly with these symbols interpretation, staying in line with both the ideas of 26, and the Rose Cross. It is in fact an ideal symbol to end these three clues, as it reflects the actual function and over all purpose of the Tablet, the prior clues describe.

93 93/93

Jason R

I believe one of the strongest arguements for this theory is the Tablets "foursquare" arrangment of the number 666, and its cross being 418. To me, its blantantly described, and foretold in verse 2.78 Here Jim Eshelman comments upon this verse, and the mysterious "foursquare";

"He is advised that 'they shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man. ' The last phrase, from the Book of Revelations, makes clear that the name is 666. It has always seemed important to me that To Mega Therion’s name bore 'the number of a man, ' for, like few other prophets of note, he was emphatically a man, a man among men.

How this number is 'foursquare' I do not know. I vaguely recognize this phrase as a very old phrase. I should perform a concordance search for a Biblical usage.

Done; but with no exciting results. 'Foursquare' appears ten times in the King James Version of the Bible, the last time in Revelations 21:16. Most of the occurrences are in Exodus. Both the Tabernacle in the Wilderness and the New Jerusalem were described as 'foursquare, ' the Greek of which is tetragonos ('four-sided'), and the Hebrew of which is rabah; but nowhere do I find a phrase equivalent to the one used here in CCXX 2:78. I now suspect it refers to the Kamea of Sol which inherently declares the Name 666.

'They' shall also worship 'the name of thy house 418. ' Crowley interpreted this to mean Boleskine (BVLShKYN) = 418. I think this interpretation is convenient at best. I believe the answer is more universal. First of all, 418 = Cheth, Cancer, ruled by the Moon. is Leo, Teth = 419, correspondent to the Sun. Cancer and the Moon clearly fill the bill as 'the house' of the Sun and, in fact, ideas of house and home are commonly attributed to Cancer in astrology.

'House' is, of course, BYTh = 412. The phrase 'thy house' is BYThH = 417; but 'his house' is BYThV = 418. (This is much more satisfying to me than AC’s forced BYTh ABBA.)

The idea of a 'holy house, ' which also comes up in that way in Cap. III, is likely, ultimately, to be an allusion to similar points in the Fama Fraternitatis.

On examining the N.C. for v. 77, I chuckle to see that AC commenced with precisely the same points of Qabalistic analysis as did I.

'thy name' =ShMH, an anagram (temurah) of both ha-Shem (HShM), 'the Name [of Tetragrammaton], ' and of Mosheh (MShH), 'Moses. ' Its value is 345. AC reinforces an idea I failed to emphasize above, that it is his name that will be worshipped — 666 and all that it means — not Crowley himself.

Regarding 'foursquare': This is verse 144, or 12 x 12. This number brings forth many ideas from the Apocalypse, where these are the key numbers representing the dimensions of the New Jerusalem — which, in turn, is a symbol of the microcosm of the human body. See also T.'.O.'.T.'."

Crowleys comment upon the same verses seems even more pertinent:

"II:77 Thou the prophet had in a way at this time identified himself with the number 666, he considered the magic square drawn therefrom rather silly and artificial, if indeed it had yet been devised, on which point he is uncertain. The true Square is as follows: (It follows when it is discovered)."

What magic "Square"? Did he know of another secret magical square for 666? Could it be this foursquare 666 Tablet? He continues with the comment below on verse II:78;

"II:78 There are certain occult wonders concealed in the first part of this text (see Liber CCCLXX). The solution of the last sentence may depend upon the number of the verse, which is Mezla, the Influx from the Highest, and of the Book of Thoth, or Tarot."

I Think its prertty damn significant when he specifically relates the possible connection of the last sentence of the verse - "They shall worship thy name, foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man, and the name of thy house 418" to the Tarot!

That is in fact EXACTLY true, the Tablet produced having four 36 sub-quadrants totalling 666, and a central cross totalling 418, DO involve a solution using the Book of Thoth! I find this very convincing as an arguement, and justification for this proposed solutions objective truth.

93 93/93

Jason R

Tabulation II. The second enumeration method displaying the numerical arrangement in the squares that distinguish the divisions of the Tablet. The elemental quadrants are colored according to its element, each totalling 666. The white central cross is attributed to Spirit and totals to 418.

http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u564/daegal93/ThelemicTablet_zpsb744a57f.jpg

This is not the final appearance, just a generalization of divisions with the numerical foundation. The final rendition has of course letters within the center of the squares, and each side of the truncated pyramids are attributed colors of the two blended Tarot cards, as well as the various elemental mixtures. This gives just an over view of the general layout.

93 93/93

Jason R

THE NAILS OF THE HOUSE & ABRAHADABRA

Here is a further note on the symbolic significance of the three numbers of enumeration method 2.

Tabulation II, generates four solar gates and a central cross, distinguished by their significant totals. It does this as already pointed out through the use of only three numbers: 5,14,23.

All these can be reduced to the number 5. These numbers also, if taken as the new English letter order, spell FOX, which if related to both Hebrew and Greek letters total 666. In fact if we reduce 5,14,23 and take the reduced outcome of 5 as a Trump number we get the Hierophant - which is attributed to the Hebrew letter Vav (6).

If every square then, has a number reducing to 5, it is possible to say the whole Tablet is filled with "nails", which symbolises union. Abrahadabra is to be hung upon these nails, which acts as a guardian of the Temple so to speak - the "reward" of Ra Hoor Khut.

We could also see, if we take each of these numbers as their Hebrew & Greek equivalents (according to the related English), all numbers upon the Tablet can be reduced to 6 as well. The whole Tablet can be found to then reduce easily to either a 5 or 6, another way it reflects the Great Work and the H.G.A.

5,14,23 reduce to 5. 5 = Trump V. The Heirophant = Vav 6.

Paul Foster Case says of the letter Vav; "In Hebrew, the letter Vav is the equivalent of the English 'and.' Thus the grammatical use of the letter is derived directly from its literal meaning. The conjunction 'and' links together a series of nouns describing various objects, as, 'apples and pears and lemons.' It also introduces dependent clauses in a sentence. In Hebrew, the letter Vav is used in precisely the same way. Thus, like a nail, it binds the parts of a sentence together, and clauses or phrases introduced by it hang from it, like pictures supported by hooks driven into a wall."

This is significant, because besides the obvious symbology of the Great Work, this is a hidden clue to the the letters that go upon the face of this Tablet, which would be the obvious last aspect completing the Enochian style structure.

The last clue given along with the "line drawn" & "circled squared" was Abrahadabra. This last clue, is in fact the last aspect of the Tablet, not just as a general summation if the whole function, but a final hidden clue revealing what letters go upon the face of this Tablet. The real clue to this is in how this last clue is cleverly worded; "And Abrahadabra." It is phrased as its own seperate little sentence - two words "And", and "Abrahadabra." As you can see above from the quote of Case, "and" is the conjunction of the Hebrew letter Vav, union, a nail.

Taking this in the context of the other clues given in this verse, and if this is the correct meaning of these symbols, which I feel there is ample evidence to support, this last clue then could say "hang Abrahadabra upon the nails." The whole Tablet, every square can be found as a 5, and so a 6, and so a nail, upon which we hang the word of the Aeon, which perfectly symbolises the function of the Tablet.

Keep this idea in mind when reading the first two verses of the third chapter:

III:1. Abrahadabra; the reward of Ra Hoof Khut.

III:2. There is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught. Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit!"

We have already established how this Tablet can be related to a "house" or a "palace", and these two verses seem to point to the idea aimed at a house, obviously in the word "homeward", but even in the first verse and in regard to the word "reward", as Crowley points out this could mean to "re guard" or to "guard again" as Abrahadabra acting as a sentinal to the fortress.

Any letters upon the face of this Tablet, just as they do in the Enochian Tablets, act as a sort of "guard", as the words of power that unlock the treasures hidden in the Tablet. Looking at it as such, we can also see how it is also indeed a"reward." These letters are what form various names that unlock the various squares, so taking this into consideration, looking at Abrahadabra in this light, the verses make sense.

The first problem that pops up when we think of this idea is the fact Abrahadabra has 11 letters, and the Tablet has 13 x 13 squares or holes to put it in. How do we resolve that problem? Again, verse III:2 seems to speak to this problem, saying "there is division hither homeward; there is a word not known. Spelling is defunct; all is not aught." Abrahadabra is composed of 5 different letters, and coincedentally the Tablet has 5 divisions. If we break up Abrahadabra into its component parts, then the verse starts to make sense yet again. The words "division hither homeward" then easily can be seen as Abrahadabra being divided up in regard to this secret house or palace of Ra Hoof Khuit. Of course, doing this "spelling" becomes "defunct", or no longer functional.

We shouldn't ignore the use of the word "spelling", as a further hint at Abrahadabras role in this Tablet. Just as the Enochian letters play a vital role in the Enochian systems "spell-casting", so then would the word Abrahadabra. By breaking up this word, and placing it in a special manner upon the Tablet, we enable one to use it in ritual using the Tablet.

Last, notice that the verse says "Beware! Hold! Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit!" The words "Raise the spell of Ra-Hoor-Khuit" is now effectively 13 spaces, as we have 11 letters (same as in Abrahadabra) and two dashes now added. Notice in the first verse III:1. the name "Ra Hoor Khut" has no dashes and is missing a letter "I". This is significant, in that it symbolises the condition of one guarded against, outside the palace, or house of Ra Hoor Khuit, compared to the latter name including the "I" (Ra-Hoor-Khuit). Of course, the other significance is the additional dashes are only included latter, after there is "division" & "spelling is defunct", effectively turning the "spell" into 13. Another subtle and layered clue to the solution of "And Abrahadabra." The "word not known" can then be referring to this Tablet as a whole, where Abrahadabra is to play a vital role, and also hints at the new "words", or formula this process of weaving the word creates.

I will go into how we weave this spell of Abrahadabra onto the Tablet soon, if, as I said before there is interest. I an reluctant to reveal this last step, which becomes a bit more detailed if no one is really willing to read it.

93 93/93

Jason R

Dar,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

You actually bring up a subject that I was planning to add here. You hit the NAIL on the head.

There is a word to say about the Hierophantic task. Behold! there are three ordeals in one, and it may be given in three ways. The gross must pass through fire; let the fine be tried in intellect, and the lofty chosen ones in the highest. Thus ye have star & star[,] system & system[;] let not one know well the other.

[Just a side note; it seems to me this world "Behold!" may be a hidden reference to this whole Tablet thing. We often see it here and there mysteriously, and relates to Heh & this 5.]

There are basically THREE enumeration methods. The first is the general graph, right to left and top to bottom using 0 - 25. This gives us the Tabulation starting with 13 and ending in 37, which sort of swirl or zigzag. The Second is the reduced "mirrored" version, that gives us the 666 & 418. However the THIRD is done the exact same as the second EXCEPT we do not reduce. If we mirror the graph and add all sides for every square we get:

50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50

This tabulation I haven't gotten into yet, but notice the number of the verse you point out, 50. Here all reduces to Death, Nun 50, Scorpio.

Each quadrant now 36 x 50 = 1800 (36x5 = 180 = 18) each reduce to 18, The Moon. Notice this is the total of the quarter that is a square of the Sun.

Central cross 13x13 = 13 x 50 = 650 (65) 650 + 650 = 1300 (13). Significance obvious.

One of the functional methods of this Tablet which ill go into as well, is how the names work on the Tablet, although I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, ill say there are "twins", names horizontal and vertical. Each square is ruled by two names (or two that combine into one) a macrocosmic vertical name, and a horizontal microcosmic name.

This means in each of the four quadrants there is technically a 6 lettered vertical name, and a 5 lettered horizontal name (5&6). Adding then the 50 for these we get 50 x 11 = 550 (55). Each name of 6 then is 300 (my word is 6 and 50).

Each 5 lettered name in the Spirit Tablet, is 5 x 50 = 250 (25).

Of course, yet again, all reduce to 5. The number of Force, or energy. It goes on and on, seeing that there is so much more to say about the relevence of 50 to the Death card, and Nun, and 6.

Thank you for your observation and suggestion. I feel no one really sees all this but me, and I'm little down because of that. Is this all some "illusion"? Anyway, Thank you, and I appreciate any feedback.

Love is the law, love under Will.

Jason R

@Dara Allarah said

"
@J L Romer said
"Thank you for your observation and suggestion. I feel no one really sees all this but me, and I'm little down because of that. Is this all some "illusion"? Anyway, Thank you, and I appreciate any feedback."

I think perhaps the core idea of how your English Qabalah is being arrived at, is being lost on people. I'm going to post here what you told me, as I think it will help clarify for people what you're trying to do.

"How is this being arrive at? That's very simple, you simply take the "order" sequence of the Tarot and attribute it to the English. In other words, "A" has 0, "B" is 1, etc and "Z" becomes 7 (all reduced, (z=25=7). Justification for this is in the words "order + value", both these words = 22 & 56 = 78. The "order" becomes the "value" thru addition."

Btw - I'm not sure if you realise this, but English schoolchildren used to be taught that the '&' symbol - the ampersand - was the 27th letter of our alphabet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand

Just playing....
'Order, disposition' = MORKH = 335

'Worthy' = ABChR = 211
'&' = ET = 14

**560. **"

93 Dar,

Thank you. I didn't know in fact about the ampersand! I find the most interesting thing about this, that the ampersand is Vav which had not, for whatever reason, occurred to me. "And" of course is the meaning related to Vav, and so "nail" or union. This then makes perfect sense in the context of the idea of how the phrase "order & value" explain the secret method of the English Qabalah.

"order" is to be taken as the Trump card numbers, the familiar 0 through 21. Using the English formula the word "order" = 22, which are the Major Arcana that have the Hebrew letters already assigned, and also an "order". The ampasand then suggests Vav and union with the word "value", so we could say these words are saying "take the card numbers of the Trumps AND unite the English Alphabet to this scheme, and you have your value". Its very easy to see, but hard to explain, the symbols between the lines so to speak say it all, so much really that drawing it all out takes a bit of work. We also must look at HOW this ampersand looks in the "original writing of the Beast", it appears in the original Ms more like a plus sign than a regular ampersand, which also reflects the inherent meaning of the symbol and of course Vav. Again then the words "order" and "value" are hinted at being united, and are to be combined to reveal the English.

I want to add here that the word "obtain" as Jim Eshelman points out in his commentary of this verse, is an antiquated use, suggesting a meaning such as in the word "succeed". This then to me further points to the English letters becoming heir to the new Trump ordering style, which is not the usual A must be 1 thought process, but instead the Tarot idea and use of A is 0 method used in its ordering. The ampersand then looking more like an addition sign suggests "addition" being key here as well. So, the idea is very simple really, we attribute the English to the Tarot, applying the same "order" as the Tarot, and reduce these to arrive at their value. The secret to the extra four letters of the English in this method is revealed cleverly in the "circle squared in its failure" key in chapter 3. The four extra, seen as the cross within the "circle" (ROTA, Tarot 22) are these four extra, and as the symbol reflects easy enough the four elements. This means that the English letters "A" through "V" are attributed to the 22 Trumps as we know them, while the remaining letters WXYZ are attributed to the four elemental suits and the four base elements.

This arrangement give us a value for each letter of the Alphabet starting with "A" being 0, "B" being 1, and so on, the "order" of them reduced, "Z" being the now letter 25 (because A is numbered 0) is reduced to 7 for its value. Using this method we can then relate each English letter to our already existing scheme of Nu's symbols, and so to the Hebrew as well.

I hope this clarify the method a bit better. Ill have to post a bit more on this then to really detail what I mean. At the heart of it, the method is extremely simple and easy.

93 93/93

Jason R

@Dara Allarah said

"I'm pretty sure that the ampersand isn't supposed to be represented by a Vav, or to be treat in the same fashion as the other letters of the alphabet. The '&' was always treat as being in a class of it's own. The letter is formed from two Latin letters written together as a ligature - rather like Lam-Alif is written in Arabic for instance. I would focus on how the ampersand was used functionally - i.e. - it preceded a single letter that could also be used as a word in itself.

Like the Fool shoved in the back of the Tarot Cards in it's order, but restored to it's original place by Crowley at the start of the pack; the Ampersand deserves to be at the start of the Alphabet because it precedes the A and the I and the O by the rules of traditional and formal English. So:

& = 0 - Fool
A = 1
B = 2
etc.

Although Crowley has it that 0 = 2 .... ho hum.....

Best and 93's."

Well, I'm not implying the ampersand IS Vav, but in THAT context, it meaning "and" as does the letter Vav, perhaps the symbolism of Vav was meant. In other words the little ampersand symbol looking like a plus sign and having the same meaning as the letter Vav, (and) it may further play a role. Either way, the main point is that it looks more like a plus sign, and its that fact that gives us the hint at using addition and that "order and value" are interacting.

I cant see the ampersand being taken as an actual letter. It may have been thought of that way some time in the past, but the fact it cant be USED as a letter sort of excludes it from the rest. You cant spell with it, or give it a real place value, and besides, the history you gave said it was placed at the end of the Alphabet.

I think Nuit said it best, "My prophet is a fool with his one, one, one; are not they the Ox, and none by the Book?"
Obviously here "A" is prized for its order numbering of 0, this verse seems to point out that "A" being valued at 1 is an obsession, that ultimately through the "order" it is revealed as none.

93 93/93

P.s. Using this English Qabalah A = 0, L = 2 thus "AL" digitally is 0=2!

Jason R

@Dara Allarah said

"
"I cant see the ampersand being taken as an actual letter. It may have been thought of that way some time in the past, but the fact it cant be USED as a letter sort of excludes it from the rest. You cant spell with it, or give it a real place value, and besides, the history you gave said it was placed at the end of the Alphabet."

Yes - but before Crowley - the Fool Card also appeared at the End of the Tarot Pack in it's order! (Read Papus).

A zero cannot be used as a number as it doesn't actually represent anything (does that exclude it from the rest?). Nope- in actual fact a Zero is rather a crucial part of all modern numerical systems. The Ampersand is shaped more like a number 8 or an infinity than a + sign. The reason it is used as an abbreviation for* 'and*' is that it's full meaning is: and per se and
** or **
And by itself and - (which we were taught to sing as children at the end of the alphabet song!)

And by it'self and A = & A
And by itself and I = & I
And by itself and O = & O

We find an early form of the tetragrammaton in the English Language by the application of the ampersand. IAO. We might consider these the English 'Mother Letters' actually - but IF you chuck away the Ampersand and they are merely 3 of 5 vowels of the language.

But - as you will. It's your puzzle. I can't be bothered with revealing the Temple and the EQ***... but at the moment - with A having a value of 0 and B of 1 - I wouldn't use it. It just doesn't make any qabalistic sense to me unless the A = 1 and B = 2, so I'd add the ampersand as 0 before even starting to experiment with it as a potential qabalistic system. The 1,1,1 business was about something else entirely... no need to throw the baby out with the bath water you know!

If you think of the Alphabet as circle rather than a line, then the 'and per say and' is neither the beginning nor the end but both - like a snake eating it's own tail.

((*** - too many ungrateful little sods get their cocks in a knot already))."

As I said, I'm talking about the "original writing of the beast", and how the chance shape, of the ampersand appears in the original manuscript, not the regular "&" symbol. The ampersand in the actual handwriting of Crowley looks more like a plus sign. That was my point, and I feel may be the importance of the "chance shape of the letters" etc. in Liber Al.

I just don't see a point, or any significant use or purpose in giving an ampersand any "position" or "number" or placement in the Tarot or English Alphabet at all.

I also disagree that 0 is not a number, and regardless I dont feel that has any bearing on it being attributed to the letter A, which is a mute point because technically it already is! The verse mentioning 111 is a prime example, and I'm sure you aren't meaning to exclude all other possible meanings or interpretations of that verse lol, are you?? We all know that's a no-no in terms of Liber Al. In any event Jim himself makes the point I was trying to make myself, which is simply Crowley was obsessing over "one", and I merely am pointing out the fact Nuit ultimately makes clear that regardless of Aleph "A" being related to "one" the Trump number of it is "none" (0).

I wasn't taking the English Alphabet as a circle, the "circle" is ROTA, and the 22 Trumps of which I believe we attribute the English letters A - V to, and the cross within the circle is attributed to the four base elements. Altogether the Trump ordering method is to be applied to the English Alphabet, (utilizing the 0) and then reducing these "order" numbers to arrive at values for the letters.

93 93/93

Jason R

@Dara Allarah said

"I don't believe that Crowley wasted an entire paragraph pointing out the perfectly obvious to both himself and the reader, so that he could give the illusion that he was having a domestic with a literary convention of a Goddess. Instead of just accepting that it's a rhetorical question - why not question it properly?

Here's a quick quiz to get you started:

Apart from Card 0, In what other cards does the Fool appear?
What is the 3 lettered Hebrew word for 'Fool'?
What other word do you get when you rearrange the 3 letters of the Hebrew word for Fool?

Besides the Tarot - what other book could Nuit be referring to?
What do the 2 paragraphs numbered 111 in Mathers translation of the Zohar have to say?
Beyond Mathers introduction, is 'the Ox' ever mentioned in the Zohar?

How doe this relate to both the Tree of Life and the Temple of Solomon?

"

I believe sometimes we tend to over think things. Sometimes the most value from something comes from the most basic of meanings. We tend to miss the most important clue because unexpectadly it sits right there in plain sight; we don't see the forest for the trees.

93 93/93

xenu93

Here is some personal work with English Qabalah and it's relevance to the number 666.

666 and English Qabalah

A proof of the Thelemic nature of English Qabalah can be found in Roman Numerals. The key is a recursive formula analyzing the English Qabalah values of the letters forming a roman numeral.

First turn a number into a roman numeral. Then total the English Qabalah values of the letters forming the roman numeral.

The total is used as the starting number for the second pass thru the formula. Continue the process until a loop is formed by the second number repeating an earlier first number.

Any number you start with will fall into one of three closed loops:

69 = LXIX = 69.
58 = LVIII = 81 = LXXXI = 91 = XCI = 58.
68 = LXVIII = 103 = CIII = 82 = LXXXII = 114 = CXIV = 68.

The sum of the roman numerals forming any of the three closed loops is equal to the total English Qabalah value of the letters forming the loops roman numerals.

LXIX = 69
LVII + LXXXI + XCI = 230
LXVIII + CIII + LXXXII + CXIV = 367

The sum of the eight roman numerals forming the three closed loops is equal to the total value of their letters in English Qabalah.

LXIX + LVIII + LXXXI + XCI + LXVIII + CIII + LXXXII + CXIV = 666

Below you will find the html to produce a file for doing calculations on words and phrases with NAEQ. Just cut and paste the Html part to a new file and name it Calculator.html , it should be of great use validating the word presented as well as allowing you to work with the values easily:

mindx = 0;

counteq = 0;
eq = "alwhsdozkvgrcnyjufqbmxitep";
function compute(f){

for(mindx = 0;mindx &lt; f.expr.value.length;mindx++){

                                 counteq += eq.indexOf(f.expr.value.charAt(mindx).toLowerCase()) + 1;}

               f.resulteq.value=eval(counteq);
               counteq = 0;}

</SCRIPT>

<br><br><br>
<FORM>
<table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 align="center" border=0>
<tr><td>
<b><FONT FACE="Arial, Helvetica, Sans Serif" SIZE="2">Word or Phrase:</FONT></b>  <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="expr" onChange="compute(this.form)" SIZE=20>
</td></tr>

<b>English Qabalah Value:</b></font>  <INPUT TYPE="text" NAME="resulteq" SIZE=5>
</td></tr>
</table>
</FORM>

</body>
</html>

Jason R

@xenu93 said

"Here is some personal work with English Qabalah and it's relevance to the number 666.