Random Messages
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93 everyone,
Another little silly experience, but its something I've always remembered and found interesting. Id like an opinion on it.
Can one get messages from random people? I've had a few of these sorts of random "messages" from total strangers, and I wonder if these are common. I realize we give meaning to things, yet it seems some events are just TOO "perfect".
Many years ago I was first drawn to the Golden Dawn, as many new people to high magick are (were?), then discovered more about AC and Thelema. It was then I began to really question which current I believed in, and so I was spiritually at a sort of crossroads.
One day I was at the beach, walking and going over this decision, asking for advice from my higher self when a bum walked up talking to himself. It was obvious he had psych issues. He paused next to me, ignoring me, looked up at the sky and said, "you see that dead fish? If I was a bird I wouldnt eat it!", and walked away.
Those were his EXACT words! I remember them still! It struck me immediately as relevent to exactly my ordeal over choosing the old aeon, or the new. It seemed this odd sentence was using highly relevent symbology, and giving me my answer in no uncertain terms.
The "fish" was symbolic of the old aeon, as Christ is associated with the "fish", and its "dead" (out-moded). The "bird" was the Hawk headed Lord of the new Aeon, and if one was in this new Aeon, they shouldn't "eat" it, which is symbolically obvious. I stood there for a moment dumbfounded by this wild coincidence.
So, my question is; is this just my mind giving meaning to a chance event, or do the spiritual forces actually bring about these events to send a message?? I realize in the end it doesn't matter per se, but I'm curious how other's view this type of thing.
Thank you.
93 93/93
J -
"So, my question is; is this just my mind giving meaning to a chance event, or do the spiritual forces actually bring about these events to send a message??"
Just a thought...
Your "either/or" division here creates a hard distinction between your own mind and spiritual forces.
In normal conversation with normal people about normal things, this distinction is useful.
But in attempting to understand unusual phenomena, uniting these concepts instead of dividing them sometimes provides more fruit.
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Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.
I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all.
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@Bereshith said
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"So, my question is; is this just my mind giving meaning to a chance event, or do the spiritual forces actually bring about these events to send a message??"Just a thought...
Your "either/or" division here creates a hard distinction between your own mind and spiritual forces.
In normal conversation with normal people about normal things, this distinction is useful.
But in attempting to understand unusual phenomena, uniting these concepts instead of dividing them sometimes provides more fruit."
93 Bereshith,
I'm not 100% sure I understand you, sorry. I THINK I get it, but could you elaborate please?
93
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.
I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??
93
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Your question assumes that your own mind merely has the ability to interpret random experiences as having meaning. It assumes that your own mind does not contain the "spiritual forces" necessary to draw such experiences to yourself.
Yeah... we could go all day on the definition of self, and mind, and spiritual forces... Just sounded like you hadn't considered* yourself *as a source of spiritual experiences. It's one possibility though I'm also open to others. It's not a stupid question at all.
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@Frater Potater said
"http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.com/2012/07/gems-from-forums-iv-crystal-clear.html#more
I cam across this blog post... I think it may relate to what you are asking. The blog entry was taken from a thread on Lasthal.com forums. One of the members there was asking others about a "communication" he received from a "spirit".
Read through it and let me know what you think."
Thank you for the link. Its interesting. Ill spend some time reading it and get back if I have any thoughts to add. Glancing over it, it seems to be discussing the method of discovering TW. Not sure if there is a part discussing chance events like this, and how that works.
93
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@Bereshith said
"Your question assumes that your own mind merely has the ability to interpret random experiences as having meaning. It assumes that your own mind does not contain the "spiritual forces" necessary to draw such experiences to yourself.
Yeah... we could go all day on the definition of self, and mind, and spiritual forces... Just sounded like you hadn't considered* yourself *as a source of spiritual experiences. It's one possibility though I'm also open to others. It's not a stupid question at all."
Oh I see. Makes sense, good point! I think i was making that mistake. Thank you Frater!
93
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@J L Romer said
"All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??"
They didn't have on foil hats, right? That's the explanation.
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@J L Romer said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??
93"
I was reading an antique book called Spirit Intercourse from the 1800s. This book explained that rich educated people make for poor vehicles because they have basically filled their heads with facts, but the simple people who haven't memorized texts and mastered language and maths Ect were ideal subjects to use as vehicles for mediumship, materializations and psychic tasks. They also were (the simple) more plastic so that after the opperTions, seances Ect they did not suffer permanent dis ease.
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@Veronica said
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@J L Romer said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
All these experiences I've had, that I mentioned, were mentally deranged! Why is this the case? They are just more "open" to suggestion??
93"
I was reading an antique book called Spirit Intercourse from the 1800s. This book explained that rich educated people make for poor vehicles because they have basically filled their heads with facts, but the simple people who haven't memorized texts and mastered language and maths Ect were ideal subjects to use as vehicles for mediumship, materializations and psychic tasks. They also were (the simple) more plastic so that after the opperTions, seances Ect they did not suffer permanent dis ease."
93 Veronica,
Oh very good point. That makes sense actually, something along the lines of "emptying the cup" so to speak. I often had questions about the spiritual aspect of schizophrenia. I've personally heard seperate individuals describe the same voices and messages as one another. Usually its a deep demonic voice telling them to "walk into traffic" (very common phrase word for word) and even seen visually by many of these patients and described with similar details.
93
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@Frater Potater said
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@J L Romer said
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@Frater Potater said
"http://thelema-and-skepticism.blogspot.com/2012/07/gems-from-forums-iv-crystal-clear.html#moreI cam across this blog post... I think it may relate to what you are asking. The blog entry was taken from a thread on Lasthal.com forums. One of the members there was asking others about a "communication" he received from a "spirit".
Read through it and let me know what you think."
Thank you for the link. Its interesting. Ill spend some time reading it and get back if I have any thoughts to add. Glancing over it, it seems to be discussing the method of discovering TW. Not sure if there is a part discussing chance events like this, and how that works. "
Everything is a chance event. You are on your way to the bar, I call you and ask you to come to a movie with me. On the way there you find 20 bucks, and this wouldn't have happened at the bar... but on the way to the bar you could have been killed, etc, etc, etc.
We are the ones who notice the patterns. That's not that same as saying there is a definite existing pattern to be noticed. It's possible that spending too much time looking for patterns and messages can obscure the TW (although to be fair, it's just as likely that the TW will be found after enough wheel-spinning).
The whole conversation about spirit communications, assumes that there are actually spirits out there to be communicating with... see where I'm going with this?"
Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely. Take for example my above experince, its more than just missng ing hit by a car pausing or 20 bucks on the ground! Here you have a strange rambling, pausingnear m, uttering a single phrase that coincides perfectly to the lette symbolically an answer to my important spiritual question. It seems there's more at work in some cases.
93
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@J L Romer said
"Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely."
And that's what's important: The sense of wonder at the inexplicable alters you. More importantly, the state of mind that sees miracle - outside of any reason - is one of the marks that a significant part of the Great Work is maturing in you.
It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at. When something within you compels you (involuntarily) to see the miraculous in the ordinary, you are well on your way to the Vision of Beatitude of Tiphereth.
And, although this is a projection, it's also the truth. Every phenomenon is miraculous.
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"Here you have a strange rambling, pausingnear m, uttering a single phrase that coincides perfectly to the lette symbolically an answer to my important spiritual question. It seems there's more at work in some cases.
"Jung called such events "synchronicities."
Wikipedia primer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
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@Bereshith said
"Jung called such events "synchronicities.""
Yes. I prefer "coincidence," since the word just means "two things happened at the same time."
Two things always happen at the same time. Everything, therefore, is coincidence.
Synchronicity is coincidence with meaning projected on it (see above).
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@J L Romer said
"Yes, I get it. It makes sense, and I'm sur that's te logical explaination most of the time. However, I cqnt shake the uncanny often shocking coincedences that occur more rarely."And that's what's important: The sense of wonder at the inexplicable alters you. More importantly, the state of mind that sees miracle - outside of any reason - is one of the marks that a significant part of the Great Work is maturing in you.
It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at. When something within you compels you (involuntarily) to see the miraculous in the ordinary, you are well on your way to the Vision of Beatitude of Tiphereth.
And, although this is a projection, it's also the truth. Every phenomenon is miraculous."
Wow I really get this! Yes, I get it, its in ME noticing "it", the miracle that is in itself important! Sometimes I feel I've learnt more in a month on here, than a year otherwise lol. Ty Jim.
@Frater Potater, makes sense. I get this too. I guess however the instinct I have to reject this is from how it seems to deny the reality of a a higher power. If I'm making sense lol. It seems such a mundane way of viewing the "spiritual" journey, if you will.
93
P.s. excuse any bad spelling, I'm using my phone and its a hassle.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Communicating entities - whether Secret Chiefs or HGAs - use whatever means of communicating will get your attention. They're very good at using the mentally deranged.
I have some wild stories to tell about this, but they really only tell well in person - inflection and all."
@Jim Eshelman said
"It's a queston of meaning, and nothing has intrinsic meaning. All meaning is imposed on phenomena by our psyches, usually involuntarily. Meaning is always a projection; that is, it tells you more about yourself than the thing you're looking at."
It's interesting to see both of these responses in the same thread.
Usually, one is pitted against the other. In other words, ideas of actual spiritual communication in such events is usually pitted against ideas of meaning projected onto events. Here, you've presented both ideas in response to the same event.
I'm not even sure I have a question about it yet. I just wanted to point it out. Complex possibilities...
