Conversing with House Spirits
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Greetings;
I am not sure if this is the correct place to put this or if there is a better one, but I will shoot here and hope for the best. This might be lengthy, but I kinda think the more data the better to have maximum output and insight.
To begin with, i come from a 30+ years background as a xtian High Priest Theologian/Theurgist (but I did not know about the latter it just happened without me 'working it to do so) Most of my years were spent in mostly finding most of my studies and experiances being shelved for later consideration, for they went as counter to the Ultra Orthodox I was pursuing as they possibly could. Also, I was not the most 'righteous of people " by the standards I was lined up to in my religious venue- and usually when I was at my lowest, I would have Spiritual Manifestations and phenominal Miracles in the most plentiful manner; leaving many even in my family to chaff more than a little. After a while "i went crazy- started taking things off the shelf (actually it caved in on my head) and I was forced to very carefully evaluate them. one item of note here, From the age of 15 I had very carefully read(actually studied) the bible KJV from cover to cover with pens pencils and highlighters 6 solid time and also did the same with a Catholic version with Apocrypha, a JW version (ouch!) the JST- as well as Hebrew and Greek Transliterations. but, "The Occult, mysticism, etc and "Dark Arts" which are anathema, were often the only places any of the insanity of the above reads made any sence. As well I almost memorised most of the Mormon Scriptures. However- it was by using them that I was finally hauled into a "Court of Love" and excomm'd" for Being an "Apostate and Severe Threat to the Church" aka, teaching what joseph smith and brigham young had taught ie, that the church would go into apostacy, loose its validity with thier god- and here are the very clealy enumerated reasons Why, and easy Signs to prove that it happened.
Took awhile, but now I am finally setteling into working as a Luciferian Warlock, who has no discomfort in the company of what I call "Spiritual Atheists" and "Hitchens type" outright atheists. All truth can be brought into one Great Whole- and mormonism can go into one great hole; for all the value it has now.
i am study working Goetia, Golden Dawn, Sorcery ala Jason Miller, and working as a probationner under a differing A:.A:. line. Not that it is mattering here, I am also working with a Soveriegn Sanctuary in Italy translating thier rites from Italian to English (not so easy even with google translator) in the effort to open a Lodge and system under their auspices not too long from now. I am also working on creating my own set of rituals for the inner circle around me, finishing that is looking into a volcanic ash cloud right now.
This I do at night when all are in bed, I am disabled by 3 failed back surguries, my wife is disabled with her kidneys removed and waiting for a transplant which will likely never happen due to high PRI. So I amk her Home HemoDialysis tech/nurse / do about everything else. 2 years ago we rescued my twin daughters from a mormon polygamist cult compound just out of Stockton missouri, with their total of 8 children under 10. one is still in hiding even though her so called husband has finally been convicted for at least 7 years of government housing with more to come we hope. and the other daughter and her 5 are living with us. She is currently working into witchcraft.
This brings me to the crux of the issue- hang on the house spirits are summoning me-ok, Im back. I am /renting to own a fairly good house of 100+ years old. And it has been the most spiritually active place I have ever been in... and i have been in afew. Things were so bad one week that I had to go upstairs which was where all the hassles were coming from and bein to cleanse the house, every room got a scrub, but I tried to be careful not to throw out 'good willed' spirits. But it was obvious any who lived here before us left some hideous fukheds behind. For instanse the guy who we are getting the house from is the king of evil assholes but in his mind Gods right hand man, sold one of his daughters to an 80 y/o polygamist guy who can't reproduce (she was 24 and was trained she would only breathe eat shit and think when 'her man' told her) for about 70k, we just found out about anouther daughter but details unclear. in a waY, HIS 'LEAVE BEHINDS' are as asshole as he is, and we have had some rank issues; right now I am gettiing the 'bad ones' to stand down, and the good ones we are on pretty good and getting better relations.
Last week, they decided to begin communicating with me. In a kinda wierd way. my youngest g-daughter has a little pink princess organpiano thing, with lights tones push a button and go have fun. long story short- i found out they wanted my attenion, and they finally got it. So now many nights when i am staying up doing my 'homework', they will begin 'making music' in order to call me over for a chat. Right now things are fairly ok we havesome basic commo going, but I would really like to make things easier for them and me. I really want us to work togetherto make both sides have a fulfilling an experiance as we can here. I even promised, (and I keep my promises) that when I win the lottery I will protect this house and turn it into a nice temple for them to party and live in in perpetuity. but still, we get some meanys and strays- and they tend to bug the kids, I am working on empowering them, but it can be hard for 3-5 y/o to catch on.
one of the things I am trying to work out with them is would they prefer me to Work Goetia, Golden Dawn, what? what would help them and us better. It appears they are not to well versed either. and oh BTW- my dogs and cats are always tripping on what going on, my lab Buster who though afraid of thunder would bite and take down a bolt of lightening if he could foor me, and he is almost daily jumping at someone and often chasing them up the stairs. Right now he is really on high alert as the piano keeps chiming here and there.
I also asked them if an oracle like a oijah board and or pendulum would be something they would appreciate (Q- I have a feeling homemade would be more efficacious- any opinions?) I would really like to hear what ya'll have to say. Sometimes they even use my laptop; one night they literally rewrote and antire 2 paragraphs when i was writing about this. Right now I have them trying to work out who is the leader spokesmen etc. sometimes they all begin hitting the piano and it is hard getting questions or statements answered.
Some of my g-kids, especially the wee ones are really uncomfortable with 'our other house guests/roomates' so I am trying to think of ways for them to feel empowered and able to comfortably "Preside over them" without causing a fight. Si I am wondering about pentagram banishing rituals etc, robes the whole bit. Anyone have any ideas?
Well, that is about all I can come up with now. Trying to do the best I can. i am much like Padme Sambhava; really thier is no need to battle for turf, and I am sure if I teach them the dhama even if they do not "convert" they will see the better communications and actions between us will meet our needs and theirs.i very much look foreward to any wisdom from anyone who has some to share.
Namate'
James Staples VI
32 AASR
A:.A:. Probationer -
Though very confusing, I managed to read through it all.
First things first: not "Mysticism." It would fit in "Magick," or better yet, "General Discussion."
I won't address each issue. My advice is: keep up the A.'.A.'. Work, which should be your only/main concern. It will pay off. And keep your nose clean.
APO PANTOS KAKODAIMONOS
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It's really annoying that you don't use proper capitalization or paragraphs! It makes it difficult to ascertain what you need and makes reading your screed nearly impossible. I gather, however, that the writing style reflects a mental state that is equally smushy.
All this focus on good spirits and bad spirits and everything else seems dangerous and impractical. I get the distinct impression that attention on this crap is undermining your mental health and compromising that of the impressionable children around you. I also get the sense that you are under a huge amount of chronic stress and have an overwhelming amount of responsibility (and guilt). Based on the information provided here and my intuition about it, the situation doesn't strike me as one that you have the ability to improve by trying to sort good spirits from bad, or whatever else you hope to achieve in that way.
I'd suggest you just ignore these distinctions, purge the whole lot, and try to find some silence and repose in that understandably very cluttered mind of yours.
In sum: Banish, banish, banish. Vipassana. Repeat.
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Indeed, try separating the paragraphs. It would help, such a chunk is daunting on the eyes. I was doing posts like this when I first got here, head overflowing with things I had up to that point no external reflection on, so I understand the need to get it all out. Just try and direct the flow a bit more. Someone told me the same back then and it helped tremendously to ground me and learn how to use the forum respectfully.
Grammatical grievances aside...
I agree about banishing. The important thing to notice about the phrase "Apo pantos kakodaimonos" is that it says "get behind me, spirits", not "go away". It establishes a control, not a flat-out obliteration--if suddenly the house is silent after successful daily banishings then you'll know them to be a mere fixation and you can cut your 'losses'. Even so, if you manage to befriend them, it would have little theurgic value. It's profoundly common for fresh aspirants, newly ignited on the astral, to pull low spirits towards them like moths to flame, and that can slow you down if you let it and needlessly obsess. Instead of asking who's the head honcho, as the owner of the house and resident magician make yourself head honcho and set a sanctified space to care for your wife, raise these children, and carry out your A.'.A.'. Work.
Perhaps one can help in your wife's recovery? I know Crowley and a friend or two appealed to a Goetic spirit for the health of another friend who was hospitalized, which had success(I believe that incident was discussed in the introduction to the Goetia book). But really that's the only thing I can think of. Healing work that you are capable of yourself would probably be more effective anyway. So yeah, Star Ruby after Star Ruby after Star Ruby, every day. Memorize it, get the postures right, study people's views on it, make love to that ritual. It will add a dimension of control and sanity to the situation that is necessary before even considering what to get out of it.
Ever studied Chaos Magick? It seems you'd have a taste for it. Understand that I studied it for two years and still ended up joining A.'.A.'., though the information is still important to consider for the intuitive sorcery side of things. I still make sigils, use servitors, etc... Check it out if you haven't. Fuck all that "Luciferian Warlock" nonsense, if you ask me.
93's.
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There are some excellent answers here.
One tiny point (as I head into work on the bus), just for the record: Apo really does mean simply "away." The same Greek word is the prefix of words like apogee (the point most "away from the earth'). Pantos just means "all" (as in pan).
But that doesn't detract from the general excellence of the post.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"One tiny point (as I head into work on the bus), just for the record: Apo really does mean simply "away." The same Greek word is the prefix of words like apogee (the point most "away from the earth'). Pantos just means "all" (as in pan)."
As I understood it, APO without an accent mark above the omicron means posteriority(if that's even a word
you get the point). For me it implied using the forces targeted as a tool, illuminated and contained by True Will, rather than eliminating them, which is the power in it(again, for me). What is that quote about even 'evil' germs being able to be turned and used for 'good'?If that's wrong I'll take it!
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@P is for Pomegranate said
"As I understood it, APO without an accent mark above the omicron means posteriority(if that's even a word
you get the point). For me it implied using the forces targeted as a tool, illuminated and contained by True Will, rather than eliminating them, which is the power in it(again, for me). What is that quote about even 'evil' germs being able to be turned and used for 'good'? "My Liddell & Scott is at home, and I'd rather look that up than answer you off the cuff. This doesn't sound right, but, as I said, looking it up is the more prudent idea.
What doesn't sound right is that I'm don't recall any instance of ancient Greek distinguishing meaning by accent mark. But then, I'm decades past my peak on this and relying only on good karma for most of it
(By the way, why do you say this is unaccented? Crowley's published versions had no accenting at all (as a typographical matter). Or, at least, that's my memory joined to 90 seconds of looking up the most accessible online copies. <vbg> -
@Jim Eshelman said
"By the way, why do you say this is unaccented? Crowley's published versions had no accenting at all (as a typographical matter)."
That's a good point. Wish I could ask the guy!
(I pulled out my Book of Lies and noted that indeed no accents were found anywhere)I'm getting this information from the web nexus for the lineage I'm working with. I know very little of actual ancient Greek grammar, only enough to properly preform XXV really. In the section on this ritual that point is clearly made, that it means behind and not away; they made sense of it by expounding on the virtue of using the daemon from a position of strength rather than kicking 'im out the door. Seemed sound to me so I didn't think to look it up on my own(bad habit I suppose
).I look forward to when you have the time to set it straight.
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To reiterate what has all ready been said:
BANISH! BANISH! BANISH!Considering all that is swimming about in your head, I would not worry about the Goetia for now.
Most especially considering that there are youngins about.In addition to the Banishing, I suggest setting some limitations upon these Spirits contacting you.
Establish that you shall only receive communications under certain circumstances.Frankly, I think you should forget it all and focus on your Probationer Work.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I read "Conversing with House Spirits" and was expecting some insight into working with the Spirits of the Zodiac.
Imagine my surprise...
I found much of what was written to be troubled and, quite frankly, troubling! I hope you get whatever help you need from wherever you hope to find it.
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#1- Thanks for all the replies, and the critiques. No real reasons for the grammer other than it was late at night, I was fatigued, and I was purging. That being said, I get alot of those complaints, especially from my wife. All I can say is when some would be speaking the same words- I notice they do not speak the punctuations. Muddled head- yeah, probably; got alot going on in there- BUT i WILL WORK ON IT.
2- I will continue to work on the head honcho in the house. Kinda hate rank in alot of ways- my basic buddhism; causes problems with labelling. I can assure you things were alot worse. Things are not being thrown at me or others the way they were.
Although last week a stack of dvd's narrowly missed me- I think it was mostly to get attention than hostility. We also have a very volitle nearly 11 boy who is potently stormy, Highly vicisouly angry at his mother for 'putting his dad in prison' even though he was kept at near starvation levels and tight social isolation.3- I do not mind spirits in my realm, my entire life I have 'company' and several times have had my life saved; Like the time I was pulled over the top of a 300 ft. cliff while hanging onto a prickly pear cactus and foothold collapsed in the middle of the night during a survival trip. Always have live near cemetaries. I prefer to have them like the gang of mortal friends one hangs out with- we all have personalities- sometimes we bump or grind, but if we are not one for all and all for one; seems alittle zenoelitest to demand them be 'under me' in some derogatory way.
4- One thing which may be an issue, I just did not bring it up. I am a multiple "alien abductee", in fact, my now deceased sister stoicly claims it was because of "Them" that I was even concieved as my dad was vasectomied long before i came along- but I am more like him than anyone in the family in personality and likeness even though he died when I was 3.
5- As for abandoning the "Warlock" issue, not sure what one "Magic Form" superior or inferior to another. Should not a person magnify the Talents (as in Parable of the Talents) they are an inheritor of? I see witches, sorcerors, magicians- I assume each is working to magnify thier calling. Could someone explain?
6- I reall do appreciate all the counsel I recieved, though I am concerned over the need to pick out the punctuation and grammer at almost the cost of acknowledging the validity of what was said. Seems kinda like looking at a picture and being unhappy with the individual brushstrokes in an attempt to downgrade the entire canvas. True enough, my writing can reflect Dali struggling with Picaso over the same paintbrush while on LSD. So I will work on it- just try to focus on what is being said rahter than the mistrokes of how it is said if you can-(it is hard I know).
7- much humble thanks again. I am happy that with such a long way to go I have people farther down the road to Illuminate some of the rock and potholes I may grow lax and not pay attention to.
9393/93
Dark Matter -
A true story that may have a relevant moral.
Last night, Marion and I tried a new wine we hadn't had. It was a particular Negroamaro Primitivo blend, a couple of years old, from the right part of Italy for best results. We took it untried to our favorite restaurant for a regular Monday night prix fixe menu, and found the special was a grilled pork loin.
If we'd known what was on the specials menu, we wouldn't have brought a Negroamaro Primitivo. But, of course, we plowed ahead anyway.
As we worked through soup and salad, and the wine began to breathe, we had a hard time hooking into it. The real issue was that it just wasn't at all characteristic of the variety. It did turn out, however, to be a perfectly lovely generic-type red with just a hair of white pepper spice (barely discernible, and mostly in the nose). It was only a letdown to the extent that we had expectations based on the variety.
(If you're actually interested in the wine story as it unfolded, you can read our report on <!-- w --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.WizardofWine.org">www.WizardofWine.org</a><!-- w --> - but, meantime, back to the story.)
The wine was a lousy Neg-Prim, but it was a perfectly enjoyable whatever-it-is. Plus, it went with the pork much better than if it had been the wine we thought it was.
In the old Morgan Deck (not to be confused with the Morgan Tarot), there was a card with a really badly drawn circle, and a caption, "It may not be a perfect circle, but it's a perfect Whatever It Is." (Or something like that.)
There used to be a popular T-shirt of a young boy and the caption, "I know I'm good for something, because God don't make no mistakes." (Or something like that.)
With these thoughts arising in mind near the end of dinner (assisted, no doubt, by that wine), I remarked to Marion that this might be a principle of Thelemic wine tasting: In addition to the usual criteria of wine assessment, including the acid-fruit-alcohol triad and terroir and variety traits, etc., there's a further principle: All that aside, what is it good for? (In this case, we recommended it as a pizza wine.)
So it is with your spirits.
Your categories might be getting in the way. (Strangely, you show lack of discrimination and focus in so many ways, and then hyper-attention to your categorizing.) They only good or bad in the same way that any other house guest is good or bad: that is, according to how you feel about them as guests.
Most relationships go bad from inadequate communication. Instead of labeling them bad spirits, find out what they're good for. It's just a matter of communication and observation.
Really, just think of these as house guests. That's exactly the right idea, I think. For one, it puts you in the driver's seat without you have to get all worked up about authority and rank. Second, you can see that your comfort with a lot of spirits is like a comfort one might have for a lot of cats... or for a lot of people hanging around the house. Treat the spirits the same way: They are welcome as long as they don't spill too much stuff on the rug, make for a nice mix with your other guests, etc. You don't ever need to judge any of them as bad spirits, though some may be a bad mix with the others and with your family. And sometimes you don't want people around - sometimes you need the quiet, and you should be able to expect it.
Grace, firmness, and clear communication should be able to handle all, or almost all, situations.
I bet that would go along with your Buddhist leanings, also.
Remember: If something isn't a good what-you-thought-it-was, it is almost certainly a spectacular whatever-it-is.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"In the old Morgan Deck (not to be confused with the Morgan Tarot), there was a card with a really badly drawn circle, and a caption, "It may not be a perfect circle, but it's a perfect Whatever It Is." (Or something like that.)
There used to be a popular T-shirt of a young boy and the caption, "I know I'm good for something, because God don't make no mistakes." (Or something like that.)
(...)
Remember: If something isn't a good what-you-thought-it-was, it is almost certainly a spectacular whatever-it-is."
Awesome! This alone was worth the thread.
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Master Eshelman;
I do thank you so much for your wine analogy. Sadly I am not the conoseur you are; but I do get the point. Sadly, I do not mean to describe my house spirits as good or bad necessarily- it appears I really screwed on that. As houseguests, yes, ajnd my hope is to get along with them all, hoping that at least with Reason we can learn to dwell together in some form of appreciable harmony. Even on the mortal plane I have a practice called, "Take the devil to lunch". There is little doubt I can be a certain and immediate thorn in the side of the most patient person when i fail in my mindfullness. Usually my "lunchguest' will show me this without me asking or his needing to verbalise it. Thankfully like I said the real troublemekers have left for the mostpart. With my wifes health being as delicate as it is, trying to keep things calm if not wholey supportive from the unseen realms is important IMO.
"The wind crosses over the water
and makes a wave;
Therefore we see the manifest
brought to pass by the unmanifest"
What I thank and do can create alot of wind on many levels.
I like the approach of padma Sambhava; he I am sure could have done some great exspellings exorcisms and what have you, but he Saw, they each and several of the spirits had value, and could be a added beauty to the tapestry which was Tibet.
So, they were allowed to stay, upon agreed principles, amd their nnate talents became blessings. So i wish it to be with my guests.I wish to say more, but my sleep meds are kicking in, so I need to heed it.
Blessings and incredible Thanks for your time and wisdom and courtesy
