I'm going through the experience of the Abyss...
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@Archaeus said
"
@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny."
Brother; this is a huge warning sign!
I suggest you read it to yourself very carefully"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Perhaps you like me to be "active" in this therapeutic session of ours. But I have re-read and failed to understand what you mean. Please, i'm curious: Tell me what it is that YOU see here.
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@Archaeus said
"
@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"OR... I accidentally broke connection somewhere along the way losing myself forever... If we are to think of this final alternative; I might as well kill myself... But I won't... Since I am the one KNOWING what actually happened; I am the one KNOWING who I am; and I am the one KNOWING my own destiny."
Brother; this is a huge warning sign!
I suggest you read it to yourself very carefully"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Perhaps you like me to be "active" in this therapeutic session of ours. But I have re-read and failed to understand what you mean. Please, i'm curious: Tell me what it is that YOU see here.
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace"
Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.
The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
If on the other hand we think outside the Thelemic paradigm, I would say differently.
Call it the Ordeal of the abyss if you like, but follow out the Ordeal of separation from your beloved. If you have been cast out into the abyss by your angel then so be it, go through with it whole-heartedly, give your all and deny not one drop from the cup.
I also highly recommend you read Liber Cheth.
93 93/93
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Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?
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"You guys will probably jump me and scorn me for saying this... but yes... mine Angel actually is another human being."
Not scorn, no; but I need to hasten to say that this isn't the HGA.
Now, it's always possible that a person anchored some aspect of the experience of the HGA for you for a while. That's common enough. We see the Angel in all sorts of phenomena (including, but not limited to, other people). Someone that awakens a deep experience of intimacy within us is certainly capable of igniting a new relationship to intimacy itself (and this is a key characteristic of the K&C). In decades past, I've had this jump-started in me at critical points by remarkable women in my life; I've experienced it through astral entities that claimed to be my Angel (and offered authenticating clues; and sometimes, also, were inauthentic); I dove into gematria furiously for years, only later realizing that I was building an inner language to use for communicating with the Angel until the channels were sufficiently matured to work on their own; and so and so forth and the other stuff.
People in our lives serving in this capacity are much like crystal balls or other skrying devices: They are able to serve as a reflection to us of something internal that we can't (at the moment) otherwise see outside of ourselves. And this can be quite common in the years of the approach to the Knowledge & Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel.
And it's not the Angel. It's an early taste, and an encouragement, and a way of communicating until we progress further and have the capacity to experience the Angel and our relationship to it without an intermediary.
From this one fact you have shared, we have much more clarity on your state. It isn't the Geburah/6=5 state I described, or anything to do with The Abyss. It's a common projection in the sphere of Malkuth. Your current darkness (or darkness and light rhythm, as I think you've depicted it) are the ordeal of the Path of Tav, or one of the earlier, preliminary thresholds.
The beautiful news is that there are experiences, growth, and attainment ahead of you far beyond anything you've yet encountered. You're near the beginning of your journey, not the end; and that's a remarkable thing. You have so much more to look forward to.
But, meantime, you have to complete your current "tasks" (those set for you by your life, karma, the Angel, whatever). I don't have a clear opinion on whether you have a psychiatric condition that needs treatment, or are passing through an existential crisis. (It is at least the latter; I don't have a clear sense of whether it also includes the former). By the way, the "dark night of the soul" (at its several levels) occurs when someone who has authentically connected to the Divine suddenly loses the means of doing that. In your case, it appears to be because you were anchoring that inner link to a particular person - your "way of worship" at that time. It can also happen just in the course of passing through the grades, when we outgrow the illusions of one particular phase so that our old means and methods no longer work. The solution is invariably to find the new means that is characeteristic of our new state.
"Getting inspired in a way never inspired before...[.quote]
And that's just the beginning!"I only deal with "real life stuff" so to say..."
"Then that's probably your current ordeal. She came to serve you in your Earth stage. If you want to continue the Work, you need to grow past that. Some part of you already has (most likely). I would suggest that her departure isn't a loss (in the sense that it applies to this conversation), but a gift - a clearing the way, creating a vacuum, for the next step in your growth. As long as she was around, you likely never would have looked past the material.
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.
The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"
Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive"
That's actually exactly the response I expected, but then you asked my opinion, if you follow my alternative reasoning then you can carry on as one in the abyss should.
A black brother is simply one who cannot let go.
Let go.
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John"
I am very aware of some things, John. Forgive the spelling error. I think I know your "Angel" more than I know you. I'm leaving it at that. All I've said so far to you here applies doubly.
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@Archaeus said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"
@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
93
It's important for me to tell the truth and be real about what I have experienced... And Of course reason (your words on my screen) has no effect upon my actions anymore. I have sacrificed everything. No one is getting hurt by me living my special life. There is only some suffering, and even if I try to look another way for something else to do, there will still be suffering.
Now suffering is a sacrament and therefor: Where I am at I have to treat you as a dung of Choronzon. I'm sure you understand.
As Jesus said to Peter: "Stay away from me Satan!"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!
Some see "Aliens" others see "Angels"... If you know what I mean... I would advice against describing any objective reality to any of them.
Stay put! Do the work and shut up!
93 93/93
Peaceactive"
That's actually exactly the response I expected, but then you asked my opinion, if you follow my alternative reasoning then you can carry on as one in the abyss should.
A black brother is simply one who cannot let go.
Let go."
93
You are treating me like this human being; you have the respect of this dirty old Beggar
. I'll carry on!I'm letting go of everything, been doing it for quite a while now... It's kinda scary actually... Letting go like this... You see when I left my home and everything I owned - I had this preconceived idea of how the future would evolve and be like... I clinged on to this "inner picture" of mine for quite a long time... Finally I was forced to let go of it...
Letting go of everything...
Today, it seems like I don't know anything anymore, except how to breathe and to do what feels correct to do at this very moment... The following verse from the book of the law feels more important than ever:
"44. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."
Staying present...
93 93/93
Peace
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@Takamba said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
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@Takamba said
"Hawk Headed Child, I'd like to take a wild guess. Is your name Jon?"Who are you? Do I know you? My name is: John"
I am very aware of some things, John. Forgive the spelling error. I think I know your "Angel" more than I know you. I'm leaving it at that. All I've said so far to you here applies doubly."
That is so cryptic and also kinda spooky! What was the purpose of tormenting me by awaking this tremendous curiosity of mine!? Who on earth are YOU!?
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@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
"
I've read a lot of fantasy and science fiction, and I've often noticed the stories reflect a much higher level of initiation than the author actually has consciously. I've also found that I used to put certain people on a pedestal, that they can't possibly measure up to and then be disappointed when they don't live up to my fantasies, but not really, because now I am more aware of the phenomenon. Its really good I haven't been tempted to put anyone up on a pedestal since I stopped going to O.T.O meetings.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I would suggest that her departure isn't a loss (in the sense that it applies to this conversation), but a gift - a clearing the way, creating a vacuum, for the next step in your growth. As long as she was around, you likely never would have looked past the material."
Jim, and everyone else.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
Yeah, it was a good thing she left me! Also let me comment upon that vacuum:
I'm not afraid of being "destroyed", being "wrong" or even making the "wrong" choice here... I can't go around worrying about that... I have put my trust to my inner feeling that it all will work out...If I just let myself "mature", without forcing anything, and "letting go" without clinging to any false idea... Let me quote the words of the prophet:
"Every accretion must modify me. I want it to do so. I want to assimilate it absolutely. I want to make it a permanent feature of my Temple. I am not afraid of losing myself to it, if only because it also is modified by myself in the act of union. I am not afraid of its being the "wrong" thing, because every experience is a "play of Nuit," and the worst that can happen is a temporary loss of balance, which is instantly adjusted, as soon as it is noticed, by recalling and putting into action the formula of contradiction."
Amen! Actually the worst thing in this world that could happen is that I would be wrong... Then I would have to fall hard and to pick myself up again, like this little child learning how to walk... This is how I feel from the depth of my heart... I am what I am and shall be what I shall be... That is it... I don't know how much more time we have here together on these forums and what the point is with me being her saying all these things... But it doesn't matter... I am certain... certain of that truth will set me free...
You see, first it was this Bird of Horus that I had to help with my bare hands. A bird sent to me in this very dark moment (tarot card "the Moon") when I had recently started to doing my True Will many years ago - and at the time having doubts if I was doing the right thing or not... I doubted since it seemed the universe was against me, everyone turned against me... I got in conflict everywhere...(Much due to my own fault)...
Then there were, a few months later, these "three stars" in the middle of the night rising from the holy book it self - at a time my Angel slept by my side!!! There was so many other things happening that can't just be explained away, like the experience that I identified with the "beatific vision" when I cried so many times to the beauty of the universe...
Once I stood on the balcony of my former job, watching the rain falling down like crazy, laughing and crying at the same time to it's beauty!
And why in the world would the Gods give me these signs and more... and the KNOWLEDGE I am carrying - confirming the way - and then later to lead me astray... That simply makes no sense at all... I have sometimes shown incredible courage, put myself at risk and done what my heart has commanded me to do at all times... Also If you guys were really saying something that radically would change anything, it should move me, touch my heart - because that it is how I have gotten to know Truth...
I would be moved... And I am moved by your support and the time and effort you put into answering me... but not moved to make any drastic changes in my life... rather more moved and more convinced than ever of the circumstances being exactly as they should be.
I also want to say that I am no "Don Quijote"... I have no reason or take no pride in being a Babe of the abyss. I even tried to abandon the great work and then also "the megalomania of youth", many years ago... I got "little-omania"... A little girl walking by me saying "Hi" waving her hand at me - while I sit on the street begging for people's money - is enough to make me more than happy these days... I am simply to dumb and normal for being crazy.
If I would die this very moment I would be satisfied... Almost!
I'm living the life here... I did it... and I do it every day... I am happy even though it's has been incredibly dark and painful... I am actually grateful and try to be so for every experience that come my way... no matter what it is... like it's written in the holy book:"Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt."
Oh those beautiful words! But it's hard letting go... I am doing it... and It is God - Hadit - calling the shots - I am at this point of understanding where I know that If I am to succeed or not succeed - has nothing to do with me and all to do with the Lord.
I Understand this... Understand... and I want to point out that this is not some random intellectually expression of mine, or something sprung out of sentimentality, Freudian neurosis or Borne again Christian hysteria... It's how I feel from the bottom of my heart...
I try to stay humble... Not hysteric...
The Lord is my Shepherd... And I try to stay humble for this actually being the case... not taking any personal claim for anything that I do; create ;or what will become of me... I am nothing and I will have none of any glory... and She will have it all...
I'm trying to rid myself of mine "personality" here - and it would be foolish of me trying to build a new one - by taking pride of anything - if you understand what I mean...
I am at the mercy of the Lord himself, and every day that goes by, I feel it more... That I will not Perdurabo or go anywhere if God doesn't want me to go... for as it is written:
[]...Come unto me" is a foolish word: for it is I that go."
God I love that book... Just love it... It's my preachous!
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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But there's no need to wrangle and wrestle with it so (unless, of course, y'know, there's something in you that needs to wrangle and wrestle with it right now).
You just need to move past and find the new formula of connection, your own next step.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But there's no need to wrangle and wrestle with it so (unless, of course, y'know, there's something in you that needs to wrangle and wrestle with it right now).
You just need to move past and find the new formula of connection, your own next step."
You are absolutely 100 % correct.
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@landis said
"You didn't answer my question about precision and specificity."Have I answered your questions now?"
For the most part."*Since that empathy of yours got me curious... Let me ask YOU a personal question: Can YOU make yourself:
**Vulnerable... **
Or are YOU running from yourself, having this control issue: "The need to focus on other people's problems" and "to take care of other people"?*"
Of course, but not globally. It is unwise to be vulnerable to everybody, especially people you just "met" online.
"
@landis said
"Why do you want to know if I'm on meds? I didn't ask you if you were. Are you a mind reader?"Were I a mind reader? I were right, weren't I? Because meds are a serious thing: They block emotions and shut down the hearts of men... I also felt it is hard to reach you... To touch your heart... And since you put yourself in a spot where you think you can diagnose and help another man... It becomes a trusty-issue... Therefor I ask this question: Are YOU on any medication?"
No (and if you're specifically referring to designer drugs--Prozac, Cymbalta, etc..., IMHO, no one should take them). Why do you ask?Unless you're a mind-reader or have some other relevant psychic "powers" you couldn't possibly know my emotions or thoughts.
It is hard for some to reach me, as wisdom dictates. I don't let just anybody "touch my heart."
I did not put myself in a spot to diagnose you--that's a result of you misunderstanding me. If you think I can't help you, that's fair enough. Maybe I can't. Time will tell.
When I said twice this is my opinion and not advice that was to be interpreted as, "I'm not trying to diagnose you." Legally, the only people qualified to diagnose you are psychiatrists (and maybe MDs). And if you mean by "diagnose" label you by the DSM, then I would never try to do that to anyone as I find the DSM a virtually useless tool.
Kindly,
~l -
W.W.A.S. (What Would Aleister Say...)
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@Shadow Self said
"
@The_Hawkheaded_child said
"
@Archaeus said
"Simple mistake; and I won't pour scorn on it as just one of many mistakes that a person can make.The "Inner angel" of another person cannot be your HGA, that idea completely misses the point and will only get you in trouble.
Classic Kundry Ordeal, Ordeal of discrimination.
93 93/93"
Of course mine can be a human being. Have u set the rules in this house of God? And what is the difference between a humans "inner nature" and "your higher self" (This could really start to be a play with words!)? In the end - but two different experiences coming to us, depending on the very nature of the man experiencing the phenomena of his own universe.
"
I've read a lot of fantasy and science fiction, and I've often noticed the stories reflect a much higher level of initiation than the author actually has consciously. I've also found that I used to put certain people on a pedestal, that they can't possibly measure up to and then be disappointed when they don't live up to my fantasies, but not really, because now I am more aware of the phenomenon. Its really good I haven't been tempted to put anyone up on a pedestal since I stopped going to O.T.O meetings."
Shadow Self,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
I know what you mean... Actually the prophet was one of those authorities I had to let go of at one point in time... The "image" of him so to speak... and this hatred-image of Christianity that he created for me
... In my honest opinion, I think he went to far in his dismissal and hatred for this religion... I can today even appreciate the teachings of Christ."It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"
The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan... This little playful boy deep down inside of me... Who like to tease, play mind-games, giggle and smile...
And those very words wouldn't have been possible to utter... If I hadn't sacrificed my pedestal-worship of the prophet and other false "images" of people..."Thou shalt not have any other Gods before me."
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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""It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"
The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan..."
The point of Pan (The All) is that it's all "Universes". Ranting about "YOUR Universe" is a bit disturbing, to say the least.
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@Patrick Ossoski said
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@The_Hawkheaded_child said
""It is mine UNIVERSE you hear me! MINE!"The funny thing is that I really meant it - it was all from the depth of mine heart! Those were the sincere words of Pan..."
The point of Pan (The All) is that it's all "Universes". Ranting about "YOUR Universe" is a bit disturbing, to say the least."
That's because you failed to understand the universal Joke. You didn't see the playfulness behind me saying it... I wish someone understood!
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"W.W.A.S. (What Would Aleister Say...)"
Bugger off?
Quit sniveling and give me my crampon?