College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"No, I don't need to defend someone's expression of consensual sexuality to you, and I don't accept that the relationship model you call natural is even that.

The nuclear family is an industrial age creation. If we had been in nuclear families for very long you wouldn't see such extreme variation in milk production, for one.

"Natural" for humans in general is a fluid mix of tribal links, monogamish pair bonding, and promiscuity. On the individual level, it can be anything. Humans do thrive on connection, but the form that connection takes can be varied.

I don't see the bias or sugarcoating in that. Any relationship, short or long, can by toxic or healthy.

I know it's a nazi tendency to prescribe one way of being and pretend it's the best for everyone, but nahhh it isn't."

I'm trying to be as practical as possible, pointing out why I think such approach is the one healthier and more beneficial for the mystic and aspirant to finally assist his initiation, I'm not acting like a moral authority over these matters as you'd like to believe.

Nature is dictated by the Tao, its laws and dynamics speak for themselves, not through any 'subjective' intellectual discourse and chatter. We should be humble enough to deal with it wisely.

You mention tribal and monogamous pairing, but yet, you want to make promiscuity as the exception and rule, while it isn't. I'm still waiting for your answer as why you think busy-body-based sexual promiscuity is holy, you seem to be confusing Liber AL passages and allegories with this. Remember that Liberty also is a responsibility and another kind of bond.

I am an idealist aristocrat, and when it comes to the common man, I don't care whom you are sleeping with so far you're not interfering and effecting your folk and nation's well being, unity and evolution (ie. continuity through family), something sadly most gay people for instance can't wrap their heads around.

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"What is off is the slut-shaming attitude about other people's choices.

Sexual promiscuity can be either toxic or holy. Stable monogamous relationships can be either toxic or holy."

The usual leftist sophistry.
I pointed out why I think this is not good for aspirants, even technically.
You tell me now what makes it 'holy' and safe?

An ideal relationship is balanced and harmonized on all of these planes; the spiritual, mental, sexual, and emotional. Whether we like it nor not, this is how it is, we should be brave enough to admit it and deal with our inner solitude, not everyone is lucky (especially at these times) to have such relationship, it's rare indeed but it's the NATURAL way, and apparently many are not having it for karmic reasons, cultural/environmental influences are secondary.

You are definitely free to unite with anyone based on two or one of the aspects I mentioned, but it will still be lacking in regards to the concept of relationship and finally making a family. Do what you will, but take responsibility and acknowledge things as they are and don't sugar coat it.

I emphasize again on the busy-body (busy-mind too) mentioned in Liber Aleph and other works, try to understand it, as it's considered a hindrance of achieving one's True Will.

@Jim Eshelman said

"All I'm really saying, though, is that an unbounded area of choice has to remain - that there be no outside rules imposed by society, social rules, etc. But people can make their own choices, and make agreements within a particular relationship. For example, you might choose to be with someone in a relationship where your agreement is monogamy - that's cool, too, if you enter into the agreement freely. However, entering into such an agreement (or its reverse) under duress will screw you up psychologically. Choice has to be free."

We should be careful what we mean by 'free love', if that equates a busy-body sexually with different people during a short period of time while having the opportunity to be in a stable relationship then something is off. We should be neither exceedingly suppressing it, nor subliming it, as the Master himself said.

I'm also of the belief that spiritually sensitive people can't survive such lifestyle, as they create rapports easily and their auras become effected.

Eventually, as initiates, we'll have to meet our twin, and experience hieros gamos, the well known alchemical marriage. I doubt an entrance back to Shamballa is made alone, or is it?

@Takamba said

"Scarlet Woman is a title. It’s a role and it’s voluntary."

Cool.
Then, what are these qualifications to deserve this title?

One of the most pivotal characteristics of this woman is that she not only helps the aspirant know his True Will; but assist him effortlessly in doing so.
All hail Our Mother!

@seekinghga said

"How? All things result in love. Love, in the Thelemic sense, is the outcome of dissolving barriers. It is not a Silent Witness but an Ardent and Aloof Participant, such is Hadit. I didn't ask "how?" in order to challenge what you're saying. I'm genuinely asking you to delineate its methodology."

You are correct in your scientific explanation of Love.
I would say the first thing is knowing thy self, knowing your own history and nature both in this life and another ones if possible, that way in my opinion it won't matter where it is coming from if it's assisting your True Will, other than that; it is simply good food for social and psychological analysis and examination.

I stated earlier that an external source will manifest usually through the 'inner ear', the frontal lobe area, where obviously the ajna chakra is, this is its job. It is sudden and not reached for, and mostly (superficially) incoherent. Crowley in one of his letters stated that the body of light is a good tool for helping the student at critical times in throwing either warnings or hints, and this goes well with my experience.

It's probably the elemental bodies both in their lights and shadows communicating if not intermingling at that plane and working like antennas for each other, resulting in such telepathic experiences. These elemental 'bodies of light' are like vehicles with no solid sense of 'I' or mind, and if they're not taken with care they will be an astral dumping ground.

So, what makes you believe this woman is a pure vessel/expression of Babalon communicating with you?

@Takamba said

"That you ask these questions suggests you aren't ready. But who am I to say that? Play with your toys as ye will."

I'm still studying the thing, not attempting any actual work soon.
I keep remembering Crowley's saying that the best magicians create their own rituals, which is exciting enough.

@Takamba said

"I've created for my own pleasure several varieties of the LBRP (which is far more than a "daily banishing ritual") including Star Wars themes, Marvel themes, Hellenic themes, and a private one I will simply say "ROCKS!""

For god's sake, not Marvel!
We are barely making it without all of this.

@mark0987 said

"What you should be questioning is what those beings mean to you- whether they are alchemic or elemental, or both. Whether they are wardens of the circle, or whether you are invoking their influence into the circle and yourself."

Absloutely.
So far the only experience I can validate is with the Devas of the Hindus.
It would be awesome if I can work a whole pentagram ritual based on that system!

@mark0987 said

"Another thing you could do is simply abandon the LBRP, it is not the best thing since sliced bread, is largely misunderstood, and is largely over-rated in my opinion outside of the tradition which it is a part of. 99% of magical systems don't practice regular banishings, it is a great tool to have, but, outside of a system, it is useless in my humble (perhaps misinformed) opinion."

Because it's the most practical, I can't think of any other ritual that calls both on the Divine Providence and the Elemental to harmonize it and anchor it finally in the mundane, which I'll be doing to fill and charge the space AFTER the banishing (Star Ruby). That's hard to replace.

@Hermitas said

"Regarding your technique for discernment: Respectfully, I don't think it takes seriously enough the idea that our own unconscious minds can and do produce "information" of an unbidden and unexpected nature. It does so frequently in dreams. In other words, it could still be the words of a representation of an individual created by your unconscious mind (as in a dream), with no connection to the actual individual's thoughts.

Objective (outside) confirmation is necessary to test the percentage of correct "reads" enabled by the discernment technique you describe.

Honestly, I believe I've experienced both, the real and the imagined, yet I can't tell just from the "hearing," and I don't know what to tell you except not to bet your reputation on anything you hear.

Note: I went through a Saturn transit conjunct my natal Neptune once. It broke all the rules. It was as if my own mind was trying purposely to deceive me. I've become a lot more skeptical about it since then."

Yes it's quite tricky and definitely needs objective confirmation along the way, that's why most importantly is knowing one's True Will, the mind and even the body will never rest and will have countless changing states on the path of initiation, letting it subject to the True Will is the end goal, be it a suggested projection or synchronistic telepathy; they should both result in Love.

I'll be experimenting with making my own version of the LBRP. I'm trying to remove the Abrahamic influences, especially in regards to the archangels, what other correspondences suit the quarters? I'm definitely thinking of the Olympian spirits, but had no experience with them, the Gnostic systems got some classifications that goes with them probably, what do you suggest? The basic idea is that I want to use a distinct pentagram ritual for invocation, while using the Star Ruby for banishing only.

@Hermitas said

"I share this theory, but i think it quite dangerous. It’s impossible (or very close to impossible) to distinguish from psychological projection. Or, if you’ve got a technique for making such a distinction, I’d love to hear it.

The best analogy I have is that sometimes it’s my CD player (psychological projection), and somethimes it’s the radio (telepathic information). But I can’t tell just by listening to the music."

Both the energy and the first person that pops in your mind the moment the message is received is one indicator. I noticed sometimes when I intentionally think of a certain person I will tap into their mind and these random messages will start flooding by themselves.

You will know that it's coming from you when you can trace the root of the thought (at least with two previous thoughts related) and their connection to your current physical state, imagine your own thoughts like an ever expanding and connected branches of a tree, while those of an external source will be sudden, random and most importantly not reached for, along the things I mentioned first.

Also most importantly, knowing thy Self and True Will.

@seekinghga said

"Ignore it. I can't help you beyond that. If you want someone to tell you that what you are experiencing is a holy boon, a ringing telephone, a text message, I can't tell you that. You need to increase your concentration, it needs to be all day. If you want to make it."

As I said, I do ignore them when I'm doing my raja yoga session.

In the waking state, I mentally connect to the subconscious of those I know and receive spontaneous messages from them, and I'm aware most of them do it unintentionally as repressed ideas or emotions, and those I'm connected deeply with will manifest the thoughts and emotions I send to them, so that's one thing that made me more cautious in my thoughts and energy.

I don't believe anything (even chaos) to be arbitrary or futile.

@seekinghga said

"Good for you, but that isn't meditation."

The second part of my comment is definitely not about meditation in the formal way as it is learned through Hindu and Buddhist texts and traditions. So I don't have anything against what you are saying.

What I said concerns the phenomena itself whenever it happens, as it does sometimes even in the conscious state, it's actually one of the things that helped me in understanding and controlling the mind, while the Eastern methods are strictly made for ritual and devotional use for hermits, which is contrary to the Western where we are invested in the physical, mental and having things accomplished and manifested, which I find complimentary to the message of Thelema too.

@seekinghga said

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. If you want to succeed in meditation then you must ignore everything but that which you are meditating on. You can do what you want. Your mind becomes involved in "thinking" when it turns and revolves and judges what is going on. Thought is the antithesis of meditation."

Absolutely, otherwise no samadhi.

But I think this is part of what distinguishes the Western Tradition from others, they're strictly magians and warriors if you look at history, and we have to follow where this evolution is heading, which apparently uses the mind and psyche as its vehicle. I could babble on all day about this but I rather not divert much from the main subject.

@seekinghga said

"If you are hearing voices then you need to increase your powers of concentration on what you are meditating on and stop listening to haphazard and hallucinated "aural" stimuli. All sorts of phenomena can arise to distract the intrepid yogi, including ananda (which is a "sinking into" rather than a lust). Learn to ignore them."

As I thought, this is a common case.
I do try to ignore them during meditation, but I think there's an explanation and even benefit from that.
The profane and neophytes say this is one of the ways 'spirit guides' communicate with them, on the other hand I believe all of this begins when we are encountering the Dweller on the Threshold, which coincides with us forming or being aware of our astral/etheric body, which gets it's own mind and entity but rather work like a reflecting negative or mirror, it's of elemental nature and have the capacity to hack and be in rapport with the 'mental plane' of people we know, thus more will and ability for telepathy and suggestion.

Dion Fortune said the aspirant at the beginning of initiation will get messages from the watchers on the gates of the inner planes and you have to figure them out for your self, as they come through the veil which obviously is related to the ring-chaos she talks about in her book the Cosmic Doctrine, this agrees with the new age view I mentioned earlier.

I personally lean towards Crowley's view that it is merely the body of light trying to give us hints or warnings but based on our personal history, no guides or watchers (at least this way).

Me and one of my friends who practice yoga regularly too have been experiencing this.
Basically hearing voices in what they call the inner ear, not from an external source through the physical ear; but inside the head, it seems to be in the area near the pineal gland, and I can easily distinguish that it is not the usual dialogue I have with my self since it is not reached for and so random, it happens mostly before I go to sleep or when I am meditating, did anyone experience the same?

I have my theories so far, but I'm interested to hear yours first.

@Takamba said

"Okay. We have a researcher, not a doer. That's part of the problem. You will never understand some things that cannot be exactly transmitted via written word. Only experience can show you what to be for or against. But if the written word has bound you, so be it. Who am I to interfere with your evolution?

Whereas as I understand things, testing those boundaries of belief is the exact purpose of occult and Thelemic study and
drum and flute
practice.

Invoke means to bring into an indwelling way, into yourself, to become a vehicle possessed by the being.
To evoke means to bring out into the world, to encapsulate in an external vessel for communication with or other purposes.

My favorite vessel is a cat, but that's a long story.

Dabbling will get you nowhere faster than Hell."

I prefer theurgy and gnosis, I do believe as I said that any spirit I'm destined to communicate with will be present in my own field when I astral project, because it seems both magicians and common people who also do astral projection report similar results about at least how these entities look and feel, I'm sure the type of knowledge they're supposed to carry will be different to each one.

I just feel like these are Old Aeon methods, which I'm not wholly devaluing, as I appreciate their technical precision, but I choose to take from them what is in conformity with my True Will.

@danica said

"If it's your experience, you were there, you can surely say better than me what kind of beings appeared
Did you communicate with them?

Btw, you may find this old thread of interest:
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Also, are you familiar with Liber 777 or 776 1/2 ?"

I have never attended any evocation or binding kind of work, which I'm actually against, especially since it is made in the name of the God of Israel in the classical grimoires, but that's something I won't do even in the name of other gods, as I believe a being with his own will, authority and divinity chooses to interact with me if need is arisen, other than that, I'm of the belief each line of evolution should go in its own way and not infringe upon the other as it is usually made.

What I concluded from your first comment is that Briatic beings might appear (physically) but ONLY through invocation?

I only went through some of the pages of the books you mentioned, thanks for the links.

@mark0987 said

"These are all just labels for spiritual beings, I am not of the opinion that there are angels and demons. Merely beings which have been categorized as such out of superstition and personal experiences. You say you know and assume, I don't know how you both can know and assume. I don't believe Gods had physical incarnations, just stories which state they did. How are they communicating through human means?"

What I know and assume is definitely open for discussion and criticism, my apology if I came off too confidant in my beliefs and theories.

Master Therion himself in different sources proposed the same thing. In Liber OZ, it says 'There's no God but Man.' In one of the letters in Magick Without Tears, he mentions how the 'gods' are intimately connected to humans on different levels (let alone the fact they appear in most cultures as so), finally, my belief that the spiritual is not separate from the physical, it actually has to be so or otherwise it's all meaningless, even if it existed. It's Hadit, the divine spark, it may be veiled or go dim, but it's still there, that's why once in a while in history we have those divine human beings who 'bring fresh fever from the skies', and the adepts are just in their way for that, some are already.

@danica said

"The Briatic beings are invoked, not evoked."

So what does this make the entities that appeared after the evocation of a certain archangel for instance?
Planetary spirits/etheric shells used by the greater entity itself?
Sorry but I'm not an expert in these matters.