College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

I believe reincarnation is the biggest illusion we want to believe. That being said i don't dismiss the idea of incarnating oneself into a physical body after "death" (Or that you have not had a "past life" though i wouldn't word it the same way). I'm away from home so i can't quote exactly what Hermes Trimegistus had to say on the "issue". The main thing is that the wording Reincarnation and the ideas around it is incomplete and misleading. From what i understand we all have 2 souls one being born when our physical bodies are born (more likely just before) and the other being a fragment of God Himself. That Fragment has formerly attached itself to a similar soul from an earlier time and can communicate that experience or memory with you. The purpose being to teach. You yourself are separate than the past live(s). You carry no karma from before because for you there was no before. Just because I believe you only have 1 life, doesn't mean you don't get a body in later Mansions or beyond; just that it is not physical. Or that you can't physically manifest yourself in the 1st Mansion (physical reality, or what I would call sensual reality) after you've past on...Its a delicate issue. I know for sure I don't have the answers to but i figured I'd share some thoughts on. I'm actually "on the fence" when it comes to this discussion. Same discussion a few months ago and i would be giving reasons why i believe in reincarnation (I too have had vivid detailed memories of what i believed then to be a past life). Now i feel reincarnation is incomplete and not true in its explanation.

You're right i am thinking of LSA... Can't nature produce the perfect poison? I fail to see how poisonous plants or plants that we have not yet found uses for are not perfect in what they are. My reasoning on alcohol is flawed and bias. I see a lot of negative effects from alcohol and I've yet to see someone ONLY benefit from alcohol with NO negative consequences, no matter how small. I can't say for all but I can say what I've seen. (anyways late night rambles usually carry their flaws)
My point which i didn't outline well is that mankind in its present evolution will not create a drug that does not have some flaws. We are imperfect beings so what we create will be imperfect. Not to say that and individual can't benefit from man made drugs. But pharmaceutical synthetic drugs are a step backwards in effectiveness than the plant they derived the pills from. (and usually have nasty side effects). Not to say that their plant counterparts do not carry side effects. Pharmaceutical companies can't make money if their products are second to nature AND people are aware of it. Anyways holistic medicine knowledge has been pretty much lost in the present day so we are pretty much stuck with western medicine until the knowledge is regained. (that or spiritual healing)
Nature is Perfect and Unchanging yet the Unchanging is Change. Every individual will take an individual path. What is perfect for 1 is not perfect for another. I do believe that you will have less negative side effects from plants created in nature than pills made in factories. But the line in between is not always clear (for me i think of alcohol)

Cannabis (Marijuana) Psychedelic Mushrooms Entheogenic Mushrooms (amanitas) Unrefined Opium Coca Leaves and arguably less so LSD and DMT are Naturally occurring Drugs that can assist or hinder the user on their path to enlightenment. Everyone is unique and will take a unique path on their quest for enlightenment. Nature is Perfect you can't improve on her. (LSD and DMT are found in such small dosages in nature their effects are minimal until extracted and concentrated)

Man made drugs such as Heroine Cocaine MDMA (ecstasy) Methamphetamine arguably Alcohol all produce pleasure but since mankind at its present stage is self-destructive they seem to only lead to destruction. (Whether a short or long path) I see no basis in these drugs assisting one in enlightenment. I do pose the question Is Alcohol created by nature and only assisted by man? If one accepts that then it can be used to assist the user.

Dear Alrah,
thank you, I'm looking into it...

Dear everyone else...

I fully understand where everyone is coming from. Don't mistake my passion for anger i carry no ill feelings. Edward Mason has made many great points (so have others) and i enjoy the discussion. What i speak of will not happen overnight it is a slow rebuilding process. (well first decelerating the destruction then rebuilding)

I have noticed a lot of focus on wild livestock and game. I am in no delusion that there is not enough animals left for the present demand for it. But where there are obstacles there are solutions. There are people and organizations who have collected millions of different seeds preparing for the tough times now and in the future. (world seed bank for one)
Please don't think this is off-topic but if we changed our crops to cannabis which is the most versatile growing plant in the world (the only thing that can grow anywhere in the world.) The seeds happen to be the most nutritional food source on the planet containing every essential amino acid and essential fatty acid and a perfect balance of protein carbohydrates and fat. It was historically farmed in times of great famine. It truly could feed the world and is very easy to farm. And there happens to be a large market for seeds.

and again I'm really passionate that this can become a reality. Will it? at this time i say no or at least not right away. I do believe that it is possible not quite practical or even logical (for some people at least) anyways i'm done on the subject..

Thank You EVERYONE

For ye who has little faith; there happens to be many teachers if you only stop and look. And there happens to be MORE than enough money and food to provide shelter clothes and food for EVERYONE on this world many times over.
Reality is that 100 billion pounds of food is wasted every year in the USA ALONE!!! Billions of pounds of food is dumped into the Indian Ocean because there is no "market" for it in India. Or rather they would rather have their OWN people STARVE than give away this "surplus" of food for free. They rather throw it away... (pretty shagged up huh?)
These are all real statistics. so don't come back at me with "thats BS"
50% of the All the Food in the world is WASTED and tossed into LAND FILLS. MY dream cannot happen when their so many mis-educated cynics out there. So let me say this As long as people are mis-educated and believe that the only way to save the planet is depopulation and "theres nothing we can do right now", then the weight of their guilt is lifted off their shoulders and they WILL DO NOTHING... "You may call me a Dreamer But I'm not the only one"

on the contrary i was raised anti Christian and without religion And yes i understand it is written in symbols and not to be taken literally and i know i have not spent any where near enough time with the text to pull out the deeper meaning(s) hidden within. It was more of a initial shock and question if anyone else felt the same initial shock. What the Shag was my first reaction to the text. That didn't stop me from reading through the rest. Hate and Love are but opposite poles of the same thing Love is the highest vibration that will always trump the lowest i.e. Hate That being said they are one in the same. (kindof like if you travel north long enough your going to be eventually traveling south) bad analogy i know
Beauty is inherent in everything and nothing; even in the "Ugly".

Pity to me is looking down on someone and assuming that you are LOOKING DOWN. The only weakness is the point of view you take instead of having pure compassion for another being.
Pity is a weakness compassion is true strength

Its not so much about being broke. Ridding yourself of all possessions doesn't accomplish anything in it self. But to build your own shelter with your own hands (something i know Free Masons practice). To Plow the land, plant the seed and reap the harvest. To have a personal relationship with nature where we are dependent on her and she is dependent on us. This is the true role of mankind while we are on this sphere. The services We would be providing would be to ourselves for survival. To chop wood and stack it for the winter so we don't freeze. To go identify and collect plants/herbs for their medicinal purposes and to cultivate them more easily. Their would be no need for Money to express our will. Our will is in our hard work. Actions speak louder than words (whether spoken or written). Money is just paper with written words on it; as useful as tinder. If it wasn't for the huge Gangs we call Government (funny how successful street gangs model themselves after the US government) that enforce the "value" of "money" with their guns/might; Money would be useless and worthless. The point where we are producing more than we use is a landmark where we can begin to trade for other items. That and beginning to redistribute food water clothes medicine shelter to those who are in need Free of Charge. (Pretty crazy concept huh?) And because all of this would be completely self sufficient and we aren't making any profits The government cannot tax us. Every time we hunt or fish we make a pack with that animal to take responsibility in maintaining the carrying capacity and maintaining their numbers. Which shouldn't be hard since we are not hunting\fishing for commercial reasons. Its relearning the basics something i believe humanity on this sphere would benefit immeasurably from...

You misjudge me.

My depression (and the chaos that ensued) stemmed from a failed relationship at the age of 18 a very serious one. I won't get into it for it is very personal but i can honestly say it was the lowest part of my life but i have already transmuted it to the most positive aspect. My fall (and recovery) was so i can understand and help my friends to their feet when they fall. And i have done that.

I have no idea where you got "leaping over the bits we find difficult" so I'll refrain from retorting and just laugh
i have done much work in the last few years specifically (this is almost ironic) in what you addressed. (which i completely agree with)

"learning to comprehend and deal with them is a major part of what magical training entails, in the first few years."

My desire to get off the grid does not stem from my want to escape reality. Nor am i trying to run from society. Nor do i Hate society. I LOVE NATURE i am in love with the outdoors and i want to Work and LIVE off the LAND. To have a personal relationship with it. Its funny you consider my words odd, i happen to find your words "any serious fraternity" ODD
(I'm pretty sure quite a few monasteries would disagree) many of which are self sufficient and thus off the grid

I laugh (with love) at myself for my previous wording "distractions of material living" i should have expanded. your interpretation is completely correct without my complete explanation which is thus

I should have just said i wish to rid myself of all my "money" and what we ODDLY call "POSSESSIONS" which is VERY ODD to most people
but i embrace my oddity and love myself and my "odd nature"
I'm sure Jesus was very ODD to most people just as Gandhi was Odd but its funny how the oddest people seem to make the most impact on the world...

All my wants stem from LOVE and not FEAR

I guess i want to know if anyone else feels the same as i do.

PS: Don't take my laughing or opposing view the wrong way i mean no harm or disrespect

I have my roots in alchemy and was at one time a probationer of an outer order of Rosicrucian, unsatisfied with the snippets of information and at the time very depressed and chaotic i fell out of contact.

I am drawn to Thelema, but
I feel more drawn to alchemy and Hermetic-ism than anything. I feel they are more pure. Strangely enough i happen to come across a rare small book written by The Three Initiates named The Kybalion in recent times. Which i hold as the greatest treasure in my collection of books

I have a strong desire to find the correct school for I
And thus far i feel very connected or drawn to Thelema and doing group work BUT i also have strong feelings of being drawn to None school and doing The Great Work alone and away from civilization (alchemy)

my solution to the two seemingly opposing paths of working alone and working with others (which both lead to the same goal) is to compromise with the right and left side of my mind; To work in isolation with others as long as our Goal(s) is/are 1 and the same.

I am willing to move anywhere in THE WORLD as long as it is "off the grid." and i mean off... I am of 20 years in this world and ready to do real WORK (both physically and spiritually) I need not the distractions of material living. Is there such a place within the Temple of Thelema? or within the A.'.A.'.

Anyone else get the initial feeling of WHAT THE FUCK?
i read chapters I and II with great interest and love but was initially disgusted or rather taken back by some of the words in chapter III. So much that i at first couldn't read past the line or rather i had to pause before continuing

Mercy let be off: damn them who pity! Kill and torture; spare not; be upon them!

I forced myself to read through the chapter and am left confused and amused.
It is the All piercing Love of God that allows Free Will to take form completely free; even in forms of Evil and Blasphemy or it would not truly be Free Will
But it is my free will to accept or reject what has been written as a truth, a lie or TRUTH

Is anyone else or rather has anyone else felt this same initial discomfort with chapter III in the book of the law?

Thank you all i have much to think about.

So if Love is the "essential nature" that supports Will
and If we assume Love and Will are Paradoxical
All Paradox's can be resolved and united
Then Love and Will are but polar extremes of the same substantial prima materia? or True Will

in that sense i see how LOVE is under WILL

I'll keep meditating on the subject

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. ... Love is the law, love under will"

I take issue or rather the wisdom flows around "I" and returns to the source with the words "love under will"

i see ALL as reflection(s) or causes of love or Divine Love which i name as such only because it is Love beyond anyONE's comprehension.

Cannot I not say that THE ALL's WILL IS LOVE and THE ALL's LOVE IS WILL. and thus WILL and LOVE become ONE. in this way can i comprehend will as equal to love (in the form of TRUE WILL?). but i fail miserably to see how LOVE is UNDER WILL.

Is it not the Artist's love of creation that proceeds his/her will to paint?
does not one act or rather will by the means of what one loves?
or does not the "wicked man" pursue POWER under his LOVE of POWER?

I live or will to be, by my love of life and being, if i have no love for myself or others how can i will or be anything?

How can one define LOVE? or rather how can one chain LOVE to a personal experience. is LOVE not shared by all? as being undefinable and thus completely and wholey free? I see LOVE as LAW: the HIGHEST LAW
which is the ROOT CAUSE is will not the EFFECT of LOVE?