College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Liber Nu is full of practices that fall under that category, and one title of a 5=6 is 'Lord of Compassion', i.e. a King as Jim mentioned.

Hi V

DWTW

My advice, from experience with this particular name (Archetype, angel, whatever) is to work with it, don't get scared of the idea of demons or any such nonsense, I suggest you read the Book of Enoch, Leviticus and the Yezidi and Islamic scriptures regarding Azazel. You might just find a diamond in the rough.

Hi Isa Gold

I spent a number of years in OTO and during my time I knew people from all walks of life, all social classes and all races, most people were cool so far as those things were concerned so in a nutshell, your race isn't an issue.

That said, people are people, and you get ***holes in all walks of life, OTO members and thelemites/occultists in general are no different. I've spoken to people who have encountered racism in OTO, although I found that sexism is more common, although both seem to be rare compared to society in general.

On the other hand, yes OTO does seem to be dominated by middle-aged white men, and this is reflected in some of the culture of the Order. I suspect this has more to do with the origins of OTO as a quasi-masonic body within the western occult tradition, but everything has to have an origin so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Hope this helps.

@Jim Eshelman said

"Locked it. Came back and did some clean up. Unlocked it.

I'm seriously thinking of giving myself a 1st Warning for allowing this kind of (****) to go on."

This is the most sensible post on this entire thread.

@Angel of Death said

"
And not to gripe at Los, but I personally highly disagree that if you can't sleep you should watch Netflix. It is proven that electronics interfer with sleep patterns, read a book, go for a walk, wash the floor, color a picture, practice forms of deep relaxation, but don't turn on the idiot box or get online."

I've found the exact same thing; if I sit on the computer too much late at night or something of that sort it really screws with my ability to switch off. I always try to have at least an hour before I go to bed spent meditating, reading or if it's really not happening I go for a walk, or have a beer, although that last one seems to only have a knock-out effect that wears off after a couple of hours.

As for Resh; best not to beat yourself up about it, negative reinforcement is not usually that useful. After a while it gets easier but when I look back at how I was when I started I used to forget about half the time although now, a few years later I rarely miss it unless I'm really busy. It comes in time.

@Takamba said

"
@Archaeus said
"I've even had dreams confirming the same. "

*looks around to see if Los is coming "

Who cares what Los thinks to be perfectly honest,But if I get a dream (and I do a lot of Lucid dreaming, so my unconscious and conscious communicate pretty well) that confirms in terms that are not only unmistakable, but also couched in terms that I had not consciously thought of using, then for me that`s a message that only an idiot would ignore of bother to argue the toss about.

@kasper81 said

"
however I feel that when someone is asking , "what am I to expect on path x, y or z? " then they are stuck"

Correction: was stuck.
A small change in perspective and things are now rolling along fairly well, I've even had dreams confirming the same.

Just to say thanks for the input Jim, the fresh perspective has helped a lot and things seem to be moving again, somewhat anyway. 93 93/93

@Jim Eshelman said

"First, I'm assuming you are talking about the A.'.A.'. scale. If not, then ignore anything I say below."

This is correct. I spent quite a bit of time earlier in my Work going through the paths & Sephirah below Tiphareth in Assiah, 'to get the lay of the land' so to speak. That work did suggest where I might have issues once I started work in Yetzirah so I guess it's time for a diary review to get a bit of perspective.

"The Middle Pillar ones are the most notorious, since they correspond to shifts between the Four Worlds. For the others, I'm not exactly used to thinking of them as life ordeals in the same sense - they are just processes that are in play, and mappings of techniques (the assigned tasks for each Path) that help one through the clearer ordeals of the grades (sephiroth) themselves."

'Repeat to self as Mantra: The map is not the territory, the map is not the territory', Thanks for the reminder

"
The others... well, their ordeals are addressed by the assigned tasks of the training system. These can highlight "hot spots" in an individual's psyche, more or less evident in examining the particular task, though I'm not used to seeing them present overt ordeals in anything resembling those evident from the sephiroth."

'Hot spots' is a good way to put it, I've certainly had a few of those highlighted. The thing I notice is that the Ordeal of the Sephirah seems to act as a catalyst for a lot of introspection which in turn seems to get the path/processes moving, although this isn't always particularly comfortable, I have noticed quite a bit of resistance on my part, together with some pretty vivid dreams of a particularly lucid and numinous character.

"At the risk of generalizing excessively (i.e., making stuff up), it feels like the Paths, being ways of going, do not have ordeals because one is in motion. The sephiroth do have distinctive ordeals of the kind I think you mean because they are inherently plateaus, static. In general, one has ordeals from NOT MOVING, and any imbalances sort themselves out in the going provided that one is in motion; so Paths are not so prone to these."

A generalisation maybe but a useful one to bear in mind, it certainly feels like I am somewhat snagged on an area of my ingrained psyche that I had always managed to ignore before, but which is now staring me in the face. I'm going to have to do some severe psychological renovation to get past this one. Which incidentally gives me a clue that actually the path that's giving me issues might not be the one I thought it was, but one that I hadn't started actively working on yet, so a change in strategy might be in order.

"
Those are generalities. As for your last paragraph, and with respect to your wish for privacy, I'd nonetheless offer that if there is one particular Path on which you'd like more directed comments, I'm happy to see if I have anything particular to say about it."

Thanks for this, I am generally pretty loath to discuss my own work on forums, or with anyone except my immediate Superior because I've had ego-inflation problems when it comes to grade material and I'm trying to burst that particular bubble.

"Similarly, Qoph, Tzaddi, and Peh are all concurrent."

This is pretty much what I was looking for, as I mentioned above it seems obvious now that at least part of the problem has come from confusing the paths and assuming that the processing that is meeting resistance is coming from the path I am actively working, whereas it's quite likely to be coming from one that I had been saving until later, but it looks like the path itself has other plans.

93

I can find plenty of info on the Ordeals associated with the sephirah, but there seems to be a shortage of info on those of the paths of the tree of life. The obvious and well known one is the Tau Ordeal, but how about the other ones. Are there classic ways in which these would　manifest in the aspirants life?

Im particularly interested in the pre-adept paths, being Shin, Resh, Qoph, Tzaddi, Peh, Nun, Samech and Ain.

For myself, although Im a bit loathe to go into detail on a public forum, some of those I have passed through seem to have happened almost without a hitch, my current one however has me very much perplexed. If anyone who has been through these has any advise or reflections they would like to share then Im more than happy to discuss, although for specifics a PM might be more appropriate.

93 93/93

I think what he meant was don't be a jerk, I doubt that changes much over time.

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"I'm not a 3=8, but I think there's a big difference between saying that there are more modern ways of doing a practice that have proven more effective, and saying that no one could possibly have gotten something useful out of a previous practice."

Exactly that, I certainly got something useful and informative from the practice, albeit more as a side-effect. Self knowledge is always useful even if not particularly pretty.

"Also, every quality taken to extremes has a dark side. Self control has the dark side of neurotic over-controlling behavior (see also diseases like anorexia, which have a strong element of control involved, or the close inextricable presence of control.in BDSM practices)."

And this is the principle objection to Jugorum, that it can easily pander to the masochistic tendency and become an end in itself rather than a tool to further attainment, control for its own sake isn't healthy. This we what I meant by a sliding scale as far as control is concerned.

@kasper81 said

"
@Archaeus said
"I'll put it on a sliding scale for you; at the lowest manifestation we find the self-satisfaction of the neurotic, and at the upper end there is the joy of self-control. In my experience these two are not so unrelated as you might like to think."

I think I understand your point and I disagree.

We, me, Jim,others have been through this issue about the flawed, limited and obsolete practice of Crowley's self-punishing Jugorum practice"

Your not understanding my point.

I agree that the idea of cutting oneself seems obsolete, even barbaric to modern eyes. I have recently finished my second round of Jugorum, using the elastic band method which I'll be honest I found much less effective than the first round which I did during my Probation using a blade. This first round I file under 'understanding the nature and powers of my being' in that I certainly learned a lot about myself in that week, and I also gained considerable insight into why somebody might choose to cut themselves. (FYI once I had finished the practice I never felt the need to try it again, so it certainly wasn't the product of masochism)

But back on track: There is certainly a joy in the control aspect of Jugorum whichever method you use, although I found quite early on that this satisfaction only went as far as the intellect, but since by using the example of jugorum we are referring to Hod then that's quite alright

@kasper81 said

"am not talking about repressed self-harm masochistic neuroses, but about the higher level of self-control"

You sure read a lot into that didn't you!? For what it's worth I regard what you so kindly referred to as neurosis as a bi-product of practices undertaken that gave me a certain insight; hardly the resulting self-control, which came later

I'll put it on a sliding scale for you; at the lowest manifestation we find the self-satisfaction of the neurotic, and at the upper end there is the joy of self-control. In my experience these two are not so unrelated as you might like to think.

@kasper81 said

"
That was my initial intolerant reaction, that the OP is anal and has too much time on his hands to be asking such a question. However I must admit , initial 3=8 vel jugorum instigates a sort of remarkable, wholesome, neurosomatic joy"

I'd noticed that too, although for me it was something like the satisfaction brought about by the immediate results afforded by Jugorum. One thing I got that was probably less helpful but certainly revealing was the strangely addictive secret joy of sneaking of to cut myself when I'd said the forbidden word. It also gave me an insight into how people who cut themselves for psychological reasons get into the habit. Needless to say I use a rubber band these days

From what I've seen so far doing the Work does indeed increase one's capacity for joy; it also increases one's capacity for all sorts of other things, such as sadness, grief, smugness, peace, etc etc...

Seeking out joy only makes you a slave just as much as if you were constantly seeking out illicit drugs, which would be much cheaper and less time consuming in the long run...

This springs to mind:

"PILGRIM-TALK

O thou that settest out upon The Path, false is the
Phantom that thou seekest. When thou hast it
hou shalt know all bitterness, thy teeth fixed in
the Sodom-Apple.
Thus hast thou been lured along That Path, whose
terror else had driven thee far away.
O thou that stridest upon the middle of The Path, no
phantoms mock thee. For the stride’s sake thou
stridest.
Thus art thou lured along That Path, whose fascination
else had driven thee far away.
O thou that drawest toward the End of The Path,
effort is no more. Faster and faster dos thou fall;
thy weariness is changed into Ineffable Rest.
For there is not Thou upon That Path: thou hast
become The Way. "

@Jim Eshelman said

"https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17118720/Orishas.JPG"

Thanks for this. I guess 776 1/2 needs to go on my to buy list.

@HounganRocky said

"They all sound to be something like larval entities, which in Vodou are called "Zonbis." They are generally beings that are starving for some sort of attention. Such entities can be trained into becoming good hard-working servitors when offered a bit of light and libation.

I have several entities frequent my "quadrant" so to speak, seeking such things. I tell the spirit to demonstrate it's usefulness and, if it follow through, begin to work with it and give it what it needs. Be warned, it is like bringing a stray into your home... better to leave it outside so that it doesn't sh** on the carpet."

Laval entities: That's pretty much what I had assumed to be honest, and I chose not to invite them in, although I have not seem him I have occasionally had the sense that the tall man was around somewhere although he doesn't come close enough to do more than make the hairs on my back rise up, and even then it's only when I actively think about him.

Apart from my HGA, whom I've met but not spoken too directly, I've only met three other spirits, all of which were pretty unpleasant.

One was a tall man in a black suit and tie with bulging eyes and pale skin, he was hungry and grasping.

The second was a woman, dead, with eyes rolled back in her head, she made me vomit and blocked my entrance into an underground cathedral, this was a long time ago and I have since entered the cathedral unmolested.

The last (The one I told to **** off) was a black figure, very aggressive and intrusive, but not very powerful as simply swearing at him sent him on his way.

Any of these familiar?

@Jim Eshelman said

"Kinda like being with a woman, who is soaking up every iota of attention and adoration you can stream at her, and telling her repeatedly how much she reminds you of your other girlfriend."

So in other words you'd end up being served your balls on a plate for supper.