College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

"Crowleys Liber 777 gives suitable attributions as a general rule a small amount of gold tincture and you own bodily fluids if it is solely for your use."

I politely disagree with the use of bodily fluids for use with elemental beings, or offering bodily fluids with any spiritual being deity or not. The only acceptable context for the use of one's own blood I have found is in the consumption of the Eucharist or sex magic which is still a Eucharist. When blood/bodily fluid is offered to any spiritual being the whole source of the blood is given over to the dominion of the spiritual being. It is never truly necessary to offer blood/bodily fluid to any spiritual being in general. This concept does not included formula that may been directly transmitted by one's own Angel, in which case someone operating as a 5=6 or greater would understand perfectly.

"1.is his method effective? "

Yes, the question is: Is it efficient?

"2.Are there better methods? "

There are always alternative means of accomplishing the same result. For instance, the magician may use an urn or bottle to give the "elemental" spirit to inhabit. Keeping the fluid condenser in a liquid state will sustain the spirit longer.

"3. Do fluid condensers really make a difference?"

If the fluid condenser is made with fresh ingredients that have had their essence extracted with alcohol rather than using a boiled mash the results will be one hundred times more effective.

@Gnosomai Emauton said

"
@Avshalom Binyamin said
""Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment."

If you haven't learned the lesson of using a tool wisely, then you need as much experience as it takes to learn the lesson. If you already have the lesson down, you don't need lessons in using the tool wisely.

Your misuse of your debit card taught you some valuable lessons. : "

These are all good points. They've caused me to go back and read the OP a few times over. This has raised a really big question: How do the questions raised in the OP relate to the story used to introduce it? The questions seem to be focused on this idea of only using magic as a last resort: an emergency tool. As it is written, this is something that he has "read in many places and been told by many so-called magicians that they only use magic to cause change in Assiah as a last resort," but that doesn't seem to be the case in the example or for any of us. The individual in the example did "repeatedly talk to the spirits and work magic to turn the tides in my favor, but every bit of work I did only seemed to hinder me more." The ritual that worked wasn't something that s/he held off on attempting until every mundane possibility had been exhausted. It was just one in a long line of magical attempts to right the ship; it just happened to be the one that worked so no future ones were attempted.

Is there really a conflict here? Or has there just been a conflation of the ideas of "only as a last resort" and "only if it is in line with your True Will"?"

If you read my original post, I said that I took every possible course of action. If everything fails, even when you are doing everything "right," what are you left to assume?

I look back at the career path I was so rigidly stuck on was actually a huge distraction from my magical work. I became focused on the interests of a corporation rather than my own. That is not to say that I was being prevented from the work I do, it simply means that I was not able to work at my fullest potential.

You may not be aware of the fact that I am an initiated Voodoo Priest and I have clients needs that I tend to as well as my own. The former position I was in allowed for me to communicate with my clients very easily, but used up much of my precious energy that I need to deal with their spiritual needs.

Why did I no longer continue corrective action once I made up my mind to leave the position? Well, I think the question answers itself. I'm not going to water someone's garden if they don't want me to be their gardener.

The point of the story was not that I was in a last resort situation, but due to the fact that I had been so practiced I accomplished something quite easily without creating any extra distractions for myself. For some, they may well feel as if using magic to get out of an extremely stressful situation as a last resort. For me it was simply a realization that the boat I was on was going nowhere. So, I had my communications officer send a very noticeable signal to the most suitable nearby vessel, reached an arrangement with it's captain, and promptly jumped ship. Turns out, the new captain offered me better lodgings and pay to stay on his boat, as well as better things to do with my recreational time.

By the definition of True Will, being in alignment with the Universe blah, blah, blah, I would say that I demonstrate it's performance in my magic.

Can anyone say that they acquired a high paying position (high paying being between $1000-$2000 weekly) within 24 hours of submitting their resume? If so, I 'd like to read your resume.

Wow.

Thanks guys for trying your best to keep the thread on topic despite the best efforts of a certain user.

"The OP is about the notion of, "using magick" so I didn't, "miss the entire point of the thread" at all. The only derailment is in the mind of someone who buys into wrong ideas about Thelema and magick. If you want to continue the fantasy without my input then we'd better redefine our whole idea of what Thelema is. You asked me to engage in hypothetical abstraction. I wouldn't, so you had a tantrum. For the sake of civility and intelligence increase; welcome to my ignore list."

Kasper, I can most certainly assure you I have quite a depth of understanding of Thelema, True Will, High Magic, and Low Magic. It's your ever changing definitions of these subjects that I think you need to come to terms with.

You obviously did not understand my topic post on this thread: I had made every attempt to correct my experiences at my previous place of employment. I took every course of action, that includes my work performance, interoffice politics, AND magic. Every attempt was a dead end, this was strange because I had grown the business net revenue by 22% within a year. Yet, due to the constant shift in upper-management I went unnoticed. My magic was not to necessarily get a new job quickly, but also to cover all expenses and have the entire experience of transition expedited so that I could continue focusing on my work.

I performed the proper divinations and determined my best course of action and took it. You see Kasper, I actually DO THINGS. I don't imagine myself becoming a master of the temple, nor do I require anyone to pay attention to my paradigm of belief. I do the Work of Will every day. True will is not some static point, it is a fountain that is constantly outpouring and creating a lust and desire to grow and change. Causing change in Assiah, and in all worlds for that matter, is the Work of Geburah mastering and commanding the powers of action and driving the chariot. All this while it appears that you are doing nothing at all. Without having acquired Knowledge and Conversation nothing I do would be possible... well maybe, but certainly not as effective.

To refer to the Abramelin operation: Why do you think you have the the Lords of Hell submit to you? Because you are now a King, a representative of the Will of God. Oh, but you wouldn't even have the slightest knowledge of that experience because all of what I do is just theory and rhetoric to you. I will tell you what takamba is strongly implying: If anyone here is vocalizing on their lack of understanding of thelema and True Will it is most certainly you, and you are so very proud of your ignorance that you choose to display it for all of us. Thank you for the willful ignorance it is really entertaining.

You are very transparent in your need to "troll" me, and honestly I could care less at this point. Please stop posting on my topics. It's not fun. It's really pitiful and obnoxious.

@mark0987 said

"I prefer my magick to be used solely for spiritual purposes. I practice magick for changes in assiah when I desperately need that change due to it impeding my spiritual work in any shape or form. If I don't need it, I don't seek it."

Then this topic does not apply to you. When a dog bites your leg, what are you going to do about it?

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"I suspect that the "last resort" advice is for newbies who might be tempted to use magick for every trivial problem or without understanding the bigger picture of their will. Sometimes we would be better off learning a life lesson about responsibility, or getting a better idea of what direction our life should be taking, before trying to use magick to change things."

Sometimes, it's good practice to use magic for every trivial problem life throws at you. It teaches you how to master certain forces of the elements with consequences that are not dire. It may be good to learn how to swim in a kiddie pool before jumping in the ocean.

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"But even early on, ceremonies to increase our magical power, make room in our life for the great work (by getting a job, for example), seem like perfectly reasonable, responsible uses of magick to me."

That is true, however, most often neglect to do this for themselves.

@Avshalom Binyamin said

"And when we've absorbed a bigger picture point of view, then we have a better idea of when to use magick in a way that's not likely to sabotage our true will, our short circuit important lessons."

It's called divination. I'm assuming that people are doing divination before doing real magic.

Perhaps I was not entirely clear in my topic post. I'm asking the question: If you are not regularly using magic to affect Assiah (even in minute ways), how will you be certain that you will be able to make effective changes when you need to? Also, if you have done workings to change things: did it work? if not, why did it fail?

*Recently, I used magic to make a fast and positive change in my life. I've been overburdened by work, and stuck in middle management for too long. No matter what course of action I would take, I could not seem to move forward in my career. I would repeatedly talk to the spirits and work magic to turn the tides in my favor, but every bit of work I did only seemed to hinder me more. Something clicked about a week ago, and I decide to do a five "uncrossing" ceremony. Uncrossings are ceremonies done to remove blockages and clear out the mental and spiritual channels.

After the first day I realized that I had to quit my job in order to be happy, but in order to quit I had to secure a new line of work. I jumped on Craigslist and found multiple ads listed by various companies for freelance cable installers. This happens to be a field I specialized in for almost a decade, but the field had been flooded by techs for the past 3 years and it was impossible to get any sustainable work. I fired off some resumes and waited.

I continued with my ceremony, and felt more at ease with my current position and realized that the road would soon open. I called to follow up on one of my resumes and I was asked to fill out an application for the gig. It was a contract labor job, which I was not too crazy about yet I chose to go with it. I gave my notice at my job and prepared to jump ship.

On the final night of the ceremony I got a call asking me to come in for an interview with a different company. I went in the next day, shook hands with the interviewer and secured an excellent salary and position.
*

So here's my point:

I have read in many places and been told by many so-called magicians that they only use magic to cause change in Assiah as a last resort. It has always struck me in an odd way that magic should be treated like some forbidden art that should only be used to help oneself in dire need.

My argument to such thinking is this: If you own a motor vehicle and allow other people to take care of it; what will you do when your radiator fails on the highway?

Any thoughts on the subject? When was the last time you caused magic to make a change in Assiah to help out your position? Did it work? If not why do you think it failed?

Let's keep the skeptical comments on the side and focus on the topic. I really don't care if people believe that magic causes change, or if if they believe it's psychological mumbo-jumbo.

Personally, I have found that performing the ceremony on various levels simultaneously produces the best results. However, the only way to be able to do that is to master the planes separately. Back in the day, I would spend a great deal of time working through a ceremony on the mental plane, then the astral plane, and finally on the physical plane. After working this methodology for a while, I found that if I neglected one plane or another, I would find that a "part" of my "self" would go into something like autopilot. This however, would only be true if I performed the ceremony in Assiah.

Over time and through practice I learned that my "selfs" were capable of multi-tasking. I could do a ceremony on multiple planes simultaneously, thus negating the need to spend an abundance of time working on a desired outcome. The astral "senses" began to kick on during ceremony, and then things really got interesting. The power of vibration became soemthing closer to what Crowley described and thoughts themselves seemed to have power over matter.

To answer your question, I would say that it doesn't matter what order you work the different planes in, simply that you work all planes regarding a matter.

@AliceKnewI said

"I attended one ritual where we were to call upon our ancestors to dance with us. Thinking of the people I knew personally, my parents and grandparents, who were Christian and inhibited about dancing, this felt ridiculous.
So I tried to imagine my ancestors going way back to pre-Christian Europe.

Contacting my immediate ancestors would take something more suited to them."

Although most "mediums" who hold those types of "seances" really don't know how to induce possession. More than likely they learned the technique from a family tradition. Although dance may lower the inhibitors that induce possession, most people in the modern world have so many inhibitors dance may not be enough to allow for possession. There are very specific dances that are meant to open the spiritual channels of the body, but those take time to learn and still are 100% fool proof.

Your ancestors "dance" all spirits move and have behavior that deals with their class and "order." The Dead dance, especially when they are agitated or have a message to give. The ancestors (for the most part) are part of your Nephesh and they have a more primal and sexual nature, most of the time they will gyrate there hips in a sexual way (even if they were inhibited in life!). My grandfather was a military man, very uptight, and yet, when he shows up he is telling jokes smiling and very "loose."

Some sources on the internet will say that you should find a way that is suited to your ancestors, and to that I have to say: bunk. Ancestral veneration was a strongly maintained tradition in the Caribbean, and to tell the truth, most black who come from those traditions don't want to share their knowledge with white people. I know that fact firsthand, being a white houngan and all. (Luckily, I'm not out for acceptance. lol)

But back on track: Try the methods I've outlined at the beginning of this thread and see for yourself. See how you feel after doing service for a while. Keep a record like any other magical act and ask yourself if you are seeing more positive outcomes in your life. Watch your dreams. Are you sleeping better? More rested when you wake? Your meditations should become deeper as you progress, and your intuition should improve as well.

A little light and libation goes a long way.

Another point i forgot to mention is talking a short magical bath. It doesn't need to be looking and can be a few short minutes in a cold shower. Bardon talks about using cold water to remove negative energies.

I can tell you that the feeling is normal in a space that is regularly consecrated by ceremony. When you read the magical grimoires and they describe laborious ceremonies of donning the robe and such, it is for this very reason. If you feel you are not prepared to enter that space, you should immediately pray to your angel asking for his intercession before you enter. I had many short prayers that I would recite as I entered my temple and put on my robes, but now they have all been reduced to a simple knock on the door.

@axismundi said

"Is to better to have the spirit or entity appear visibly in the triangle or is it preferable for the spirit to posses a persons body.

I would say that it is better for the entity to appear visibly to the mk I eyeball for magick because it requires more preparation and training.

Having the spirit posses a person is more relevant when their is a stronger religious component because often the person who is to be possessed a 'horse', has a rare talent. It would be selfish to just do private work with such a person when the spirits can interact with a much larger group of people via a possessed person."

Finally, someone that gets it.

"At first I was confused by a human horse, but is it a typo for human host? If not could you explain further."

Horse is the term for a person who is able to be possessed. The spirit "rides" the head. To fully grasp the use of the word you would need to witness a spirit "jumping" on someone's head. It appears as though they have been struck in the head unexpectedly and they will be pitched about and stumble like a wild horse being tamed.

"Also what are the consequences of allowing such a spirit to 'possess' someone, isn't it dangerous?"

It can be extremely dangerous; the person could have a heart attack or a stroke if the spirit can't be tamed, if you are abusive towards the spirit it could even try to attack you.

"am not interested in voodoo at all, but thanks anyway"

I never assumed you did, I was simply pointing a method to manifesting a spirit in Assiah.

The easiest way to see the spirit in Assiah is to have a human horse for the evocation, that's basically all that comprises Voodoo.

The trick that most Houngans know is how to keep the spirit from going bossale or "rough" when it's on the horse. The way Bartzebel behaved in Corwley's classic evocation is an example of a spirit getting rough. We have prayers, songs, and gestures that "cool" the temperament of the spirit so that it speaks intelligibly and not cause any harm.

More than likely, the part of the evocation where the spirit takes on human form in the Goetia is an obscured way of saying it has taken possession.

I needed money to move my life to North Carolina from Jax, Fl; approximately $2000 to cover all costs to move. I received a debit card in the mail for a settlement from a lawsuit that my mother had won and didn't tel me about. She didn't know I was planning on moving and felt that I deserved it because it indirectly involved me when I was much younger. The debit card had $2500 dollars on it. A year later when I needed to move back to Florida, I tasked the spirit with coming up with the money I needed for a moving truck. My mother got a call from her attorney saying that there were additional funds that were going to be given to her for reasons that are obscure to me. It was the exact amount I needed for the truck, she had no idea I was planning the move.

The spirit also made for an excellent spy, and would find out verifiable facts about people. He also helped me secure a promotion by causing the other candidate some automobile problems when we need to travel 200 miles for a meeting. Our superiors decided the other candidate was unreliable and gave me the position. Oddly enough his car was working fine after the decision was made. It wouldn't start or something like that. This all about 4 years ago, so I apologize for the vague details.

I documented the working better than the results, because the working interested me the most at the time.

I needed money to move my life to North Carolina from Jax, Fl; approximately $2000 to cover all costs to move. I received a debit card in the mail for a settlement from a lawsuit that my mother had won and didn't tel me about. She didn't know I was planning on moving and felt that I deserved it because it indirectly involved me when I was much younger. The debit card had $2500 dollars on it. A year later when I needed to move back to Florida, I tasked the spirit with coming up with the money I needed for a moving truck. My mother got a call from her attorney saying that there were additional funds that were going to be given to her for reasons that are obscure to me. It was the exact amount I needed for the truck, she had no idea I was planning the move.

The spirit also made for an excellent spy, and would find out verifiable facts about people. He also helped me secure a promotion by causing the other candidate some automobile problems when we need to travel 200 miles for a meeting. Our superiors decided the other candidate was unreliable and gave me the position. Oddly enough his car was working fine after the decision was made. It wouldn't start or something like that. This all about 4 years ago, so I apologize for the vague details.

I documented the working better than the results, because the working interested me the most at the time.

It's very easy to evoke the dead to visible appearance.

Everyone develops differently. All i can suggest is to try to implement the suggested practice. If you would like something that should yield immediate results PM me.

@YogaApprentice said

"Great one Houngan, My evocations have always been "one direction" and mainly the New Avatar Power ones (me talking to the spirit), yet I got "signs" from them to make me aware they're there (flashes, or messages days after)."

My only issue with NAP is that is employs spirits as wish granting devices, which can lead to big problems for some people. Spirits, like any living being have likes and dislikes. They are certainly not machines and need respect and nourishment.

Taking care of the ancestors generally helps with clearing up these sorts of problems. See my thread on Ancestral Veneration www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13119.

Imagine something more like a cauldron with a floating wick.

PM me

Thank you, Jim.

I was fortunate enough to have some more experienced magicians to give me hints to keep right direction, mainly regarding the use of the Solomonic pantacles and the need for constant purification and consecration. But the majority of the work was mine, and as far as I can tell original (comparing to what is in print at the moment).

I did neglect to mention that the ceremony was concluded with a modified Mass of the Phoenix. I believe that the Eucharistic consumption was perhaps the most important part of the ceremony.