College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

I consider Thelema my religion for practical purposes, in that it's my core spiritual philosophy for all I do in life. While I practice some of Crowley's rituals I also do "Luciferian" magick using cthonic/infernal godforms. I have always had a draw towards the demons and dark gods that goes beyond a mere rebellion against Christianity.

I wouldn't say I was following 2 religions though. The way I see it, if it's for the purpose of discovering your true will then invoking a demon can be part of Thelema as much as any other ritual.

@Ne said

"
we agree that the laws need to be less draconian and about the incredibly high level of incarceration; the Judiciary branch of government surely seems to effectively be the biggest failure of the U.S.system."

I agree that America's Justice system is jacked up, most of the problems caused by prostitution, gambling, and sedative drugs like pot are due to the fact that they are criminalized and therefore forced into criminal business, and the government gives too harsh sentences for victimless crimes. However I don't think law as a whole needs to be "less draconian" per se. IMO more serious crime like rape and child abuse are not dealt with nearly harsh enough in this country. Last year some idiot got only one year in jail for raping a five-year-old girl. If it were up to me, these kinds of people would be publicly executed and their body ground up for fertilizer on a cow pasture.

Anyways, I don't like mixing Thelema and politics since Thelemites can have alot of different views on various political issues and trying to establish official political positions for Thelema as a whole would be anti-thetical. That being said though, I think a "Thelemic" government could be libertarian or socialist, since Thelema emphasizes both individualism and unity, but like Jim said the ideal probably lies somewhere in the middle.

@Jim Eshelman said

"It seems, from your post, that this is a matter between you and the O.T.O. and would better be discussed in sites somehow linked to O.T.O."

This isn't just about the OTO this is something that would benefit Thelema in general, regardless whether they're part of any particular group or not. I am simply asking if anyone knows any websites or resources that would be helpful.

If the Temple of Thelema is willing to step up to the plate as a sponsor or give any other kind of support then I would gladly go with that too. The more groups and individuals we can get to support it the better.

I'm in the US Army was reading through the U.S Army Chaplain's handbook and it has a listing on Wicca, Rastafarianism, and even the Church of Satan and Temple of Set. But it has no listing for Thelema. Now I know there is a debate on whether Thelema is really a "religion", but let's put that aside for this purpose. The military recognizing it as such would help protect Thelemic servicemembers from discrimination and give them accomodations for rituals and holidays.

I know from all the ordeal Wicca went through that a big part of a religion getting officially recognized by the military is having a firm, government -recognized religious organization to sponser it, such as the Ordo Templi Orientis. I know there are other Thelemic groups as well, but the OTO is the largest and most active so I think it would have the best chance. I go to an OTO lodge in Buffalo and I've been talking to the Lodge Master about getting the OTO to sponsor Thelema as an officially recognized religion in the US Army. He's pretty high-ranking within the order and has frequent contact with the people who run the US Grand Lodge. He supports this idea and said he will write the OTO's leaders about it, but he needs more info on how the whole process of the Army recognizing Thelema would work.

So I'm asking anyone here if they know of any useful resources. In particular I'm looking for what requirements a religious group needs to be recognized in the Army, and who I should get in contact with. I'm going to talk to my unit Chaplain about it as soon as I get the chance. I've talked to him before about some of my personal issues, and even though he doesn't agree with the beliefs of Thelema I think he'll be supportive.

Any helpful info or resources I can bring to my lodge master or Chaplain would be greatly appreciated.

@atlantis said

"5) This is a question where you will find different perspectives within different traditions. Originally, Kenneth Grant proposed that one should work with the Sephiroth first, reach the HGA and achieve the contact and communication, proceed up to Daath and then do the Qliphothic Initiation guarded by the Sephirothic HGA. He then more and more came to suggest another possibility: the Qliphothic Initiation need not be postponed. It can be done directly through a secret gate that he talks about in Hecates Fountain, which is a book that together with Nightside of Eden most clearly describes his Qliphotic initiatory ideas. He is quite clear about the fact that what he calls "The Dark Angel" needs to be merged with the HGA in such a way that the HGA does not get the "upper hand".
Beside the Typhonian Order, the Dragon Rouge is the order that has worked most with the Qliphoth, and here one of the first major goals is to reach the level of Thagirion where one is to merge with what is called "The Daimon", which is the HGA and the Beast, the Angel and the Shadow, combined into one entity in "dispute" with itself. It is an entity which does not make the qliphotic aspects less wild, but incorporates the qliphotic aspects in their total destructive capacity. "

So do you think one should develop each respective Sephiroth/Qlipha simultaneously? For example one would work with both Yesod and Gamaliel and then work on both Hod and Samael etc, and arrive to the HGA and Daimon at the same time? Or should one first try to attain contact with the "angel" or whatever tree they feel more inclined towards and then take it from there?

I've also been thinking whether working with both the Sephiroth and the Qlipha simultaneously would bring balance or if they would cancel each other out like mixing matter and anti-matter?

Since I have not contacted my HGA there's no way for me to know for sure. But I will say that I think things like this is where "Enough of Because!" should be put into effect. Rather than debate with our limited egos about what the true nature of something is, we should instead focus to initiate contact with the HGA so we can find what it really is rather than spend time theorizing something that cannot be known outside of experiencing it.

That's just my opinion.

I don't believe in assigning a single element to each sphere, as I think it would create imbalances, not only because 10 is not divisible by 4, but because the Tree is not only about balance but about process. Instead, I think every sphere has all 4 elemental aspects to them, each element in the minor arcana having 10 cards to associate to the 10 spheres. For example, I don't know why people arbitrarily associate Kether with air when Kether is everything that is, so it would make more sense for that to include all the other elements.

@Jim Eshelman said

"I've edited them to their initials because we are very careful not to write them (and you had them correct). This is not because they're secret per se but, rather, because they have enormous power that shouldn't be used unintentionalliy. (An alternate thing I could say is that they could lose much of the power they have if they were readily circulated.

These are the words Adam, per tradition, used to open the gates of Hell. their etymology is unknown. Treated as Hebrew, they enumerate tlo 406, the same as the word Tav, which is exactly consistent with where they are used in key places."

My apologies. You do have a good point, if I am to believe these to have great power then I should respect them as such.

I am using these words as an opening to an invocation I am working on, along with some other "infernal" names of power. When I was working on this invocation on my computer I was stuck trying to make one of the lines using one of those powers names sound more fluid. I turned around from the computer for a few seconds to think, and when I looked back that line changed into something more fluid that hasn't even crossed my mind. My hands weren't on the keyboard at all so it was kinda weird...

The way I see it Daath or the Abyss is the primordial darkness, the black void of space that has no beginning and no end. It is a place free from the limitations of the created universe, where the only illusions are the ones you create yourself. It brings transformation to some and destruction to others. When one enters the Abyss they are cut off from the cosmos and without the distraction of the universe they are able to clearly see who they really are. From what I understand the black brothers are those who restrict themselves with illusions and limitations of the ego, thus when they enter the Abyss their ego fills the void of existence and they become trapped in their own sea of falsehood. However, to one that approaches Daath as a means and not a goal can find much knowledge and transformation. In the Abyss you become isolated so that you can see who you really are free from the bonds of creation. And since you are stepping outside the universe, you can see the universe from the outside looking in and gain a new perspective on it.

Leviathan is actually sort of like a patron deity in my Luciferian practice. Even when I first read about him in the Bible I noticed I got a sort of energy surge just by saying his name. I've ritually invoked him before and I believe he has helped me gain a better understanding of theses things. Unlike some I do not believe that Leviathan and Choronzon are the same thing. Choronzon, as Crowley described him, is the total conglomeration of the illusions of the ego that the black brothers worship and are eventually destroyed by. Leviathan is what I call the Living Darkness, the very consciousness of the Abyss. By its nature the Abyss destroys illusion and limitation, it is only the ego that turns it into a hell. If anything, I'd say that Leviathan is actually more like Nuit, being the underlying foundation of the cosmos yet nothingness in essence.

That's just my perspective. There's so much about the Abyss I don't know and can't know in this life.

Alot of Satanic/Luciferian invocations I've seen open with the words Z.Z.N.Z. I was curious about the origin of these words for a long time, and then learned that Crowley used them in his Abyss working to summon Choronzon, and that they roughly mean "Open, Open, Gates of Hell Open". Does anyone know anything more about these words? Are they Hebrew, Latin, Enochian, or something else?

@Takamba said

"I view there is a misunderstanding here in regards to "The Initiated Interpretation of Ceremonial Magic." He was Perdurabo when he wrote that, he was NOT [Nemo] when he published Liber 418."

Yeah Crowley seemed to changed his mind on some things through the course of his life. In his early works he leans towards the idea that Gods and spirits are purely psychological, but in Magick Without Tears he states that he believes in Gods that have a higher existence beyond the human psyche (though I don't think he was downplaying any of the psychological aspects of magick).

@Alrah said

"
I believe this. I was born with aspergers syndrome, which is a type of autism. It's not an illness, but my brain is wired up a little differently and this conveys both advantages and disadvantages. Until the last few years, it went unrecognised until my eldest daughter was diagnosed and the family suddenly looked at me and a collective 'aha!' went up.

I don't want to go into an overly detailed account of all the difficulties this had thrown up, although I'm willing to answer questions about aspergers, but only to say that there was quite a lot of deprogramming to do. I'd asborbed a lot of negative and harmful attitudes over the years and at one point had gotten rather stuck in dependancy victim/abuser cycles that took a lot of work to root out, amongst many other matters that come with being hypersensitive to stimuli, retraining eye and body language, and working to adjust the outsider personality type to more healthy parameters. But today, I'm happy, my life runs smoothly, I do what I am fitted to do, and know what I am not fitted for and am content that it is so. I consider that being born an aspie has been a boon to the work, a spur to the horse, and I would not have wished to have a different life."

I have the same thing dude. I had ADD as a kid and they put me on meds until they thought it went away. I still had the same symptoms though and when I was 18 I was diagnosed with AS by a professional psychiatrist.

There's been times in my life I've really despised myself for having it, especially for the social difficulties it brings. But I've learned to just accept it as part of who I am.

@Edward Mason said

"My question would be, given the proven validity of so many other texts, wouldn't they be of more use than the Necronomicon, even if it worked for you in this instance? The intention of the magician is as much (or more) of a factor than the text used.

93 93/93,

Edward"

I'm not saying the Necronomicon is the only or even the most powerful text. I'm just saying that in my own life it worked really well. In fact I haven't even used it in a long time because I'm currently busy exploring other avenues of magick.

Understand that I'm stationed in a foreign country right now and have to share a room with a roommate. As much as I'd like to, I simply don't have the time and resources to do something big like a Goetia operation. I just got to make do with what I got.

@JPF said

"
@Infernal Seraph said
"However I have known trustworthy people, including my younger sister who is a very normal girl who doesn't practice any kind of ritual magick, have very vivid spiritual experiences that even resulted in physical scars being manifested on her back. I have a very hard time believing this was just part of her psyche."

Interesting. Does she happen to live in a repressive or otherwize unhealthy atmosphere?"

Not at all. We both grew up in the same average conservative Christian (but not fundamentalist) family. She's always been a normal teenage girl in a normal life

I think I should elaborate on exactly what happened:

Back in spring 2007 (when I was still a Christian but gradually leaning more towards the occult) one of our teenage friends at our church died in a car wreck. Both me and my sister were hit pretty hard by it since it was so sudden and he was a really nice kid. Anyways my sister, who I think was 15 at the time, was going to a week long Christian retreat for teens called CIY in the Summer. I usually went every year too, but opted out this time. I told my parents it was because I wanted to focus on my part-time job, but in reality it was because of my waning faith in Evangelical Christianity.

Anyway my sister said that 2 weeks before she went to CIY, she had a dream where our friend who died appeared to her in the form of an angel, and told here that God would reveal himself to her soon. When she went to CIY, one night she woke up in her dorm room. She said that a black substance was forming on the walls and there was a very "evil" presence. She ran out of the room screaming for help but no one could figure out what was bothering her. I can't remember all the details, but among other things, she said she looked out the window and saw a huge grim reaper like being wearing a black robe and had gray flesh and black inhuman eyes. Somewhere along the line it calmed down and she went back to sleep. She woke up again, only this time to a horrible demonic face on the wall that she thought was Satan. By this time the other people from church realized what was happening and starting laying hands on her and praying. While they were praying my sister felt something inhuman touch her shoulder. When they were done everyone could see physical claw cuts on her shoulder. She was pretty traumatized for the next week, and said she could see spirits and such. However she eventually moved on and returned to normal life.

A few months later I "converted" to Wicca and when I told my parents I thought they would be understanding, but they were very upset and thought I was being deceived by Satan. My parents and I were very close and it was one of the most emotionally devastating moments of my life. However what I found strange was that my little sister was the most understanding of my choice. Even stranger, she then told me that when she saw "Satan", it seemed that even in the horror she could see the light of God emanating from him.

Some might find it strange that I would believe such a story and then turn to Satanism. I can't fully explain it myself, but I've had this irresistable drive to attempt to commune with the infernal powers. They are the very forces of destruction and chaos in the universe, yet beneath their outward horrors I feel there is some deep illumination that can transform the soul into something more.

I've had as couple of my own experiences, while not nearly as dramatic or interesting, I can't really explain. I'll have to get to them later though, as it's late and I've done enough typing.

Alot of people discredit Simon's Necronomicon as being a fabrication of fiction. Now I don't believe in the "ancient" Necronomicon that is described in Lovecraft's stories, but I have heard alot of convincing testimonials from people who have actually tried using the Simon Necronomicon in magick and said that it worked very powerfully. So a while back I decided to order the Necronomicon Spellbook and see what all the fuss was about.

Not too long after I got it one of my superiors was abusing his power and treating me and the rest of my squadmates very unfairly. After exhausting every mundane effort to solve the problem, I found it a good opportunity to put the Necronomicon's magick to the test. Just a couple days after I did the simple ritual, my superior, who is usually more stubborn than a mule, suddenly out of the blue decided to turn around the way he was treating us. This was the most effective magick I've done in terms of result. I summoned a couple other spirits in the books after that, though these were aimed at my personal spiritual development so it's harder to gauge the results but they seemed successful also.

To me, just because the Necronomicon is a modern creation doesn't mean it's magick rituals can't be effective. The stories, names, images, and symbols from all the world's mythologies or more or less tools to help align the conscious mind to the spiritual forces it wishes to connect with. The mythos of the Necronomicon and Lovecraft is very powerful to the minds of some people, and thus would be an effective tool for connecting with certain spiritual and psychic powers.

That being said, the Necronomicon is based quite a bit off of ancient Sumerian religion and magick. It's also interesting to note that Peter Lavenda (Simon) was a big fan of Aleister Crowley and quite a few Thelemic elements can be found in his writings.

Anyone else have any thoughts or experiences with the Necronomicon?

I believe in a spirit world that is both within and beyond my own self. I base this on the hermetic principle the microcosm and the macrocosm, often phrased "As above, so below". Basically I interpret it as meaning the external "objective" universe or reality is mirrored within ourselves as the microcosm, and that the two are fundamentally linked yet each having power in of itself. Many of the world's greatest occultists believed that the human mind was a mirror of the greater universe that is formed by our perception and will. So in a nutshell I believe spirits are both external forces and internal aspects of the self, 2 sides of the same coin.

This is mostly based on theory rather than personal experience, as I have had little direct experience with spirits, and what little I did have didn't really answer the external/internal question. However I have known trustworthy people, including my younger sister who is a very normal girl who doesn't practice any kind of ritual magick, have very vivid spiritual experiences that even resulted in physical scars being manifested on her back. I have a very hard time believing this was just part of her psyche.

www.chaosmatrix.org/library/humor/inlaws.html

@Jim Eshelman said

"
"So I'm wondering if the Qabalah and Qlippoth are really 2 sides of the same coin"

Uh, well, no, because the Q'lippoth are as much as part of the Qabalah as the Sephiroth.

My personal view consists of two main points, a lesser and a greater.

The more important one: Everyone has to balance themselves vertically as well as horizontally, and needs, eventually, to be nonresistant to the whole range of themselves. If one is naturally drawn to angels and light, there comes a time that one must intentionally explore the dark. If one is naturally drawn to demons and dark, there comes a time that one must intentionally devote themselves to the Light. This is a general "health & freedom" matter, not a judgment on either one.

The less important (but still important) half of my view: Aside from that general equilibration, any monkeying with the Q'lippoth is likely a masturbatory toying around below late 5=6 or even 6=5. When eventually tethered to the inmost center of one's being, one can (and, actually, must) hurl oneself into all corners of the unconscious. Until then, only the very rarest of people would have a psycho-spiritual bungee that could do the job."

So basically you're saying that one should explore both the demonic and the angelic and find a balance between the two? That would make alot of sense to me in my understanding of Thelema. I was originally drawn to the Qlippoth because of my interest in Hebrew demonology, and therefore found the infernal forces of the Qlippoth more personally appealing than the traditional "angelic" tree of life. However in studying the Qlippoth I learned more about the Qabalah in general too.

93. I'm pretty new to Thelema, I've looked into it for a while but only recently chose it as my spiritual path. I'm here to learn and exchange ideas.

I'm in the US Army and currently stationed in Korea. I only got a few more weeks here though and am transferring to Fort Drum in upstate New York in February. While I'm there I'm going to check out the Pyramid OTO lodge in Buffalo.

That was a good podcast, I can't wait for the next episode.

Frater Oz's reading kind of reminded me of the audio Bible readings my dad used to listen to in the car. It made me realize that Crowley's writings have a very similar writing style to the Bible, for whatever that's worth.