@alysa said
"Are these the only two kind of Spirit's that may Remember?"
its the ones commonly worked with in the Sumerian pantheon hence, the reference to the necronomicon. would it be cooler if i said it in sumerian? ok..
zi di geer kia kanpa
zi di geer anna kanpa.
i am reminded why i don't go to this board much anymore... the general public view is to come up with all the reasons something that doesn't fit Crowley's definition of occultism isn't actually valid. If you read the literature available on where the Necronomicon that was published by Simon came from, it wouldn't be to far a stretch to believe his words. Is believing that it was text written in Greek, supposedly by an arab who followed a pre-Islam brand of magic/occultism that comes from Sumerian and Babylonian rituals so hard?
Personally it's just as feasible and has as much evidence as some British guy who liked to pretend he was a Scottish lord found a manuscript at the market that he decoded and then was put into contact with some "secret chiefs". Actually wait, the Necronomicon sounds more feasible to me. 
Ultimately according to the principles of Chaos Magick it doesn't really matter, its the work that important.
Oh and btw, try doing the rituals. Just one. One of the gate walking rituals - exactly as it tells you to do it. Then tell me it isn't valid. I've done them. Exactly as written. More magick and more results than I ever experienced in any Thelemic Mystery School or Order. Ever.
may the spirits of the earth Remember
may the spirits of the air Remember
~jonathan
hmmm sounds amost exactly like the words i used to describe a psychic vampire.. he is just surgectly removing unwanted energy rather than giving healing energy.
sometimes you have to cut the cancer out rather than just irratiate it with energy you know?
i like to think of myself as using rieki in reverse..
i imagine you will all think i have some sort of disease or mental imbalance for thinking so... but there are many many people out there who would disagree with you...
as long as you don't start with "enochian magick for beginers" by donald tyson.... now THAT was the biggest piece of crap I've EVER read...
by the end of it he's basically making the enochian angels out to be some lovecraftian "outer beings" or "great old ones" that have really tricked Dee and the rest of the magicians into letting them into our world so they can usher in the apocalpyse..
now I love Lovecraft as much as the next recovering goth but wtf?
i would recomend both of Lon's books on the subject. His first one "enochian sex magick" was the first book on the subject i read that actually made it understandable and usable. avoid tyson like the plague.
as someone said however, without very good ability in scrying and astral work (or i suppose if your able to evoke to physical appearance you'd be ok) its kinda useless in my experience. I personally didn't find it as dangerous as everyone seems to (maybe b/c i DO expect my magick to actually work so there wasn't any suprise there) but I won't be using it again until I'm given the teachings of my Order on the subject.
damn vampires..
Ok, to the original poster.
I recomend talking to people who actually know what your talking about and aren't going to consider you to be either psychically ill or sadly deluded b/c of your experiences.
House Kepharu might be a good start. Think they even have some Thelemites around there.
93 93/93
I am by no means talking about Byronic/Anne Rice vampires here.. what I am talking about is the Archtype of the Vampire that could be used to point to other psychic/magickal areas of exploration and possibly a method of initiation.
and in this exploration, the defining principles seem to be a compulsion or hunger to move energy from another persons subtle body to the person with said hunger... for whatever reason. By doing so the "vampire" or "leach" hopefully would learn to put that psychic energy to use.
and the Tibetans did have their spiritual Vampires. They called them Heruka (which meant Blood Drinkers) and they were known as Wrathful Dieties, but were enlightened beings in Vajrayana Buddhism.
The opinions and judgements on that in and of itself I find a bit disturbingly close minded coming from Thelemites who believe in the Law of Thelema.
And until you stop using all animal products, your just as much a predator as I am. The fact is, life must consume life to live.
and no where in the conversation did I ever claim to be any sort of Anne Rice or Byronic mythological Vampire. Those intiated into certain Thelemic Sex Magick practices probably practice that type of Vampirism a lot more than I do!
but I suppose we could go back to discussions of Evoking Demons and Angels to visible appearance, traveling out of bodies to other realms and dimensions, various methods of breath control and the repetition of names somebody decided had power to create the ability to have Knowledge and Conversation with a Superior Being that is actually Yourself but not totally You... but upon experiencing it you will move to another stage of human evolution.
You do realize that to the outside observer, such things sound much more insane and ridiculous to the un-initiate than the idea that someone might have the compulsion to move energy into their subtle body using other methods then the act of eating and drinking. (foods and liquids) for whatever reason...
just as you tell that person that "There are other options, such as looking for a way to process the life force directly, rectify the imbalance.. etcetera. Someone who is addicted to a drug can keep taking the drug or take measures to stop its use. " I could very well tell you to stop all the Liber Resh's and Pentagram Rituals your doing and go get some therapy and read a few Tony Robbins books.. (not bashing those practices of course, I do them too.. just making a point)
Your taking an animal (or plants) lifeforce to live... perhaps the young vampire feels he is doing the same yet with energy. Perhaps the trained vampire is simply moving lifeforce without harming anybody to assist in his own personal evolution. Who are we to say, unless we ourselves are of that condition which some call "Vampire" (and perhaps others call Heruka hehe). Haven't met a so called "psychic vampire" yet that has claimed to drain someone's life force to deeply that the person died. I actually question if that would even be possible...
Just adding my opinions here as I am a Thelemite, but I've also studied the subject and have been initiated into Traditions that actually worked with the stuff and when people start saying "oh thats ridiculous!" "how can you take that seriously!" let me remind you of the type of board you are on... seriously its like saying "oh yeah, Mage the roleplaying game is real! you just have to understand you can't really throw fireballs! but Vampires? what a crock..."
(and yes every culture in the world has had vampire myths... I personally believe that like many things in mythology, it points to real truths)
there is a lot of b.s. out there really.. but lets not ridicule other traditions just b/c Crowley never taught it. (well other than that 8th degree thing). I don't think he taught Spare's methods of sigilization either, but I have found it to be quite effective IN EXPERIENCE!
btw... as to leaches....
from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirudo_medicinalis#In_modern_medicine
Medicinal leeches are now making a comeback. They provide an effective means to reduce blood coagulation, relieve venous pressure from pooling blood, especially after plastic surgery, and stimulate circulation in reattachment operations for organs with critical blood flow, such as eye lids, fingers, and ears.
Because of the minuscule amounts of hirudin present in leeches, it is impractical to harvest the substance for widespread medical use. Hirudin (and related substances) are synthesised using recombinant techniques.
They are also being used in relation to the treatment of various Varicose conditions.
www.medicalleech.info/varicose-veins.htm
hmmm.... as i was saying.....
@Metzareph said
"
"Johnathan wrote:
Another example of vampiric practices is Taoist sexual practices. If thats not vampiric I don't know what is."
I don't think they are vampiric. You can make it vampiric but the intention is a balance of the yin and yang by the natural circulation and interchange of energies of two participants. Like anything else, things can be twisted."
classic taoist sex practices are all about the male using the orgasm of the female to increase his "jing" or life force, while himself not letting any energy of his own leak out (non-ejaculation). classically, there is no balance, and a female that would actually cause a male to ejaculate and thereby take his life force is called a "dragon lady", a term full of negative connetations to the taoist.
there are modern books on the subject that try to balance this and claim that all taoist female mysteries have been lost b/c it was a male centered society ... but there is no historical evidence of this.
(btw.. the practice of non-ejaculation for the male vampiric initiate is another begining practice... very good for the beginner to learn how to store energy)
for the sake of argument, the theory presented by most modern "spiritual or psychic vampires" would be that for some reason they cannot process this infinte universal life force directly... or they have some sort of chakra imbalance, causing them to have to learn alternative ways of getting that energy/prana... the reason for this is varied but i've heard the explanation of different soul types, certain things in past lifes, and others..
stealing? who's stealing? life force is life force... we don't own it... if you are doing things that would cause your life force to be more intense or vibrating at a higher frequency then the average human then i'm sure you could either easily stop someone from siphoning a bit off your aura or have it quickly replenished anyway....
right?
p.s. - all of you thelemites judging the morality of vampirism ARE all vegans right?? seriously now...
exactly my point, in certain Thelemic circles Tong-len would be extremely frowned upon b/c it is non-consensual. Also let me point out that they do this first with friends, then with strangers, and finally with enemies. It is Vampyric in nature b/c you are astrally drawing someones negative energies (and sometimes karma's) into your own subtle body and then sending out positive and healing energy. Remember the Vampire does not only take life, it has the power to grant immortality (in the myths). So once again you see the myth playing out in the reality of someone who is highly skilled at the movement of energies from one subtle body to another.. and transforming negative energies into pure life force.
I often wish my first teacher never used the word "vampire" when teaching such things... as I have found that it only points towards something, that is often helpful for young students archetypes.. at a certain point one realizes that the metaphore is just that, a metaphor.
I have found Michelle Belenger's work and her group House Kepharu to be very informative about it.
There are many different theories about why/who/what the whole psychic vampire is... some I find ridiculous or perhaps just not my own experience, some that seems to be exactly what I have found in my own experience.
Another example of vampiric practices is Taoist sexual practices. If thats not vampiric I don't know what is.
Another thing I noticed in my own experience is that as the "vampiric initiate" evolves on his path he/she finds less and less a need to actually draw the life force from other humans directly, which makes me wonder if that initial "hunger" to "feed" upon energies is just pointing towards that individuals Will, which would have something to do with becoming Adept at moving energies and using such abilites for healing and other effects. I don't know, just my own thoughts.
I would also like to mention that people tend to exchange energies unconsciously all the time.. the vampiric initiate is becoming conscious of it, and is using it for a purpose.
or maybe I and other people I have met that feel similiarly are all just crazy
I find it hillarious that self proclaimed "magicians" who seek to change reality to conform to their Will or desire by using concentration and symbol systems find no room in their cosmology for the idea that the myths of the vampire might point towards an actual spiritual path or individuals, for better or worse...
i'd like to point out that the Tibetans have been using forms of psychic vampirism for thousands of years to heal other individuals.
They call the practice "tong-len"
www.answers.com/topic/tong-len
in the tradition I was first initiated into that dealt with using the vampiric archetype for initiates that found themselves drawn to such things it was one of the first practices given.
guess those tibetans are lhp predators who are interfering with everyone's Will. who would have thought?
most thelemites are a bit uncomfortable with the concept of pranic vampirism.. at it's very nature one must question if the practice of feeding off anothers life force would be interfering with their Will.
I always kinda looked at it as moving the divine life force from one vessel to another, and the motivates behind that would depend on the essence of the person doing so...
since most people are tapped into that solar life force its not like the people being fed on don't get it back.. nature abhors a vacuum, so in essence the vampire is actually causing another's prana to be "cleansed" you might say, hence another reason why most people find the physical sensations of being fed upon to be very pleasurable.
i rarely talk about such concepts these days though, as i find their have been way to many idiots claiming to be psychic vampires (not talking about anyone around here btw) that i wouldn't want to be lumped into that kinda group or personality type...
The Temple of Set has an interesting sub order called "the order of the Vampyre" that has a lot of cool idea's about using the Vampyric Archetype for personal evolution.
combine the hexagram and the pentagram - you have 6+5=11
11-number of magick, as the combination of the macrocosm and the microcosm.
as far as I interpret it, that is one major reason why Crowley places such an importance on it
(and i'm suprised no one mentioned that yet)
and I still find it a tragedy that old aeon superstition is alive and kicking in modern Thelema.
what was that about "Fear is Failure and the Forerunner of Failure" again?
@Jim Eshelman said
"BABALON"
LOL in light of this whole thread, thats classic.. haha
i actually enjoyed the information jim provided in relationship to the working in this post
@Froclown said
"I have a problem with this sort of practice, just what counts as a break.
If I start thinking about my breath, and then I think about lungs and the capillaries, the diffusion of oxygen into my blood, the concentration of carbon dioxide, the miking of my breath with the air, the mixing of the air with plants. My unity with the plants.
Technically, I have not strayed my line of thought, from the breathing process, and I have expanded focus from centered on my body to a dispersed ego state. However, If i am to fully constrain my mind, maybe I should only have direct aware of the sensation and rhythm of my immediate physiology of breathing, without analytical though on the issue at all.
Now the first case is easy, the second is very hard, and the results of each are different, yet which practice one is expected to perform, is not generally clear from the instructions."
You would be doing the latter example... just the feeling and awareness of breath. In the first, by thinking about all the correspondences regarding breathing, your allowing your mind to wander (although along a logical path) and this is a concentration practice, not a contemplation practice.
@gerry456 said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@gerry456 said
"i One very practical example: Can you control your own mind? Is your meditation experience sufficient that you can tell whence various thoughts or impressions arise? If not, then evoked spirits can, at the very least, be quite a nuisance. If you can't differentiate your own thoughts from theirs, you're setting yourself up for at least a practical joke, if not some serious harm.
."
can i control my mind? Isn't it fair to say that every quasi-civil member of the community who has not been diagnosed by the authorities as disordered in some way does indeed control their mind?
I presume yes that i know where my thoughts arise from? I take the Reichean view (as Regardie would) to be more reliable i.e. asking "am I armoured? Is there bodily rigidity in my social relations? Am i not generally at ease with myself? Are my relationships full of quarrels? Do i try to use gratifications to fill up a sense of emptiness? Do i react automatically in the throes of some opinion?" What do you think? If these factors are not common occurrences in our day to day activity then does this suggest that we do have mental control?"
"
might i recomend trying the following practice.
sit down, relax. start focusing on your breath, in and out.. just following the breath, in - out.
everytime you catch yourself thinking about ANYTHING but your breath, gently go back to breath.
try to do that for a half hour.
record how many times you thought about anything but breath.
if you can think of nothing else but breath for over ten minutes i'll be very impressed.
you know it was exactly this that led me to join the TOT.
There I was doing enochian or goetic evocation or the like.. and while I could "feel" the entities.. and sometimes see murky shadows in my black mirror i used for scrying, even hear at times what sounded like my own mind laughing at me or telling me various things..
I just couldn't tell the difference between those sights and sounds and my own mind.. the only concrete thing I could say about it is I could definately feel the energy of the entity.
Now, this wasn't so bad with Goetic evocation... after all, you can just tell them what you need them to do and they'll usually get right on that. Had a lot of success with it.. didn't really need to see or hear them for my purposes.
But everything else (such as scrying the Aethyrs or talking to the Enochian Angels) I felt like I was banging my head against the wall.
Oh god how jealous I was of those who seemed like seeing was easy for them.
anyway, I realized that I could have all the talent in the world, however you can only go so far without a serious foundation in the basic practices.. so who did I know that really had that foundation? jeesh.. those TOT guys.. well allright.. guess I'll go over there... hehe
still pisses me off to no end that I can't see as well as some of my magickal partners though.
(oh and Jim, you summed up my problem with evocation at that time rather perfectly.)
kinda reminds me of the practice of taoist practice of non-ejaculation, yet having as much sex and giving as much pleasure as possible to take in and store energy..
personally i rather like the benefits to THAT practice.
@SetiDraconis said
"I just ordered it now BTW
Damn I love amazon..I need to stop ordering books I have like 5 new ones on the way on Kundalini Tantra among other things as well.
Im not trying to be a arm chair musician eather but really going into full gear on studying.
Grants books are next on my list."
while i don't discourage reading Grant, let me let you borrow some copies or read some pdf's which are available before you spend the vast amounts of cash his works go for these days..
