College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@kasper81 said

" prostitution isn't wrong if it is the free choice of the sex worker to sell their particular services but i think if a single guy lacking in confidence thinks that having sex with a hooker will improve him in some way and make him better with the ladies per se then he is delusional he may as well keep on jacking off to porn (another form of prostitution) and save himself the money"

Thanks folks. I do agree Kasper that one has to be wary as to whether or not the prostitute is making a free choice, but who am I to know, or who is anyone to know why they are in the industry but they themselves ? I don't feel as if I should psychoanalyze each prostitute, and try to understand why she's in the industry. It's none of my business.

In the words of Rodney Orpheus: *"When you have the impulse to interfere with the way that others live their lives, you are not allowing them the liberty to follow their true wills." *

Only the individual can decide for themselves.

*" ... thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay." *

I guess that the above goes for those who visit prostitutes. In regards to the lacking confidence thing, sometimes people just want relief without all the hassle of courting.

*"I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave" - Charlie Sheen *

Thank-you for the long, long ... long reply Dara. Made for pleasant reading. Now I've got to finish reading through everybody else's comments. I'll get there eventually!

Thanks for the fast response Jim! Always a pleasure to have you replying!

I'll read through the rest of it tomorrow (read the first paragraph), absolutely knackered. Need some sleep!

I'm slightly confused as to the Thelemite position on prostitution. In Liber Oz, we have the following:

*Man has the right to love as he will: "take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where, and with whom ye will." *

Then we have Crowley (?) saying that "Prostitution (with its attendant crimes) will tend to disappear, as it will cease to offer exorbitant profits to those who exploit it."

I sort of understand what he is saying with this, but is this a condemnation of prostitution, or those who have sex with prostitutes, or a mere observation that if Thelema was practiced by all, prostitution would cease to exist ? Crowley often slept with prostitutes (let's face it, it's much easier then having to woo your way into a ladies underwear), and he seemed to have no qualms with it, aside of what he said in the quote. What do you all think ?

@Uni_Verse said

"You showed valor, and fought valiantly through the trouble of yester year

Now, Fire of Fire, you stand at a new beginning - ready to charge forth and create! Spread thy order!

In the future, you shall hold the lantern up to what you have done to see if anything has really changed (a period of reflection)"

Thankyou! It's making much more sense to me now!

Thanks Jim ... wherever you are!

I'll check it out

Again, thank-you. I've been going through various meanings and interpretations tonight; your interpretation of futility speaks to me more then any of them *

Thanks Bereshith. During the second reading, aside asking the question, I had no set goal and intended to read it like a story, much like your 'facet' analogy. Should of seen my face light up when I got The Lovers ... should of seen it drop when I got Futility ...

I had a look earlier, but it looked a little vague for me. I'll be getting "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" as soon as I can. Maybe that will shed some light.

I received my Thoth Tarot deck [I'll be getting one of the books early next week] today and decided to do a couple readings for myself. I think I've got the point as to what they mean and I've wrote it all down in a journal, but any help from someone on here with more experience would be darn helpful!

First reading I did was a Past, Present and Future three-card spread, and it went as follows:

Past: Valour
Present: The Knight of Wands
Future: The Hermit

Now, my past, especially last year, was quite hard. I had broken friendships which led to oppositions, and hardships so Valour was pretty accurate from what I can tell. The Knight of Wands is a bit harder however; one description which I found on the internet indicates a move or an important new venture which would fit because I'm moving to a new area in a couple of weeks. The Hermit shocked me ... I do prefer solitude, but I also enjoy company.

[I wrote more down in my journal, but any help on this interpretation would help]

Finally, I did another three-card spread in which I asked: What do I most need to know about my love life?

It went as follows:

1. The Lovers
2. Virtue
3. Futility

I can tell you, the first card shocked me, with it's stunning accuracy as to the question I asked and I can only take that meaning I'll find someone in the near future? However, the 7 of Swords messed it up.

Help ... anyone ?

@Veronica said

"* Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.*

I am an Aquarius too, but this one trait seems way off base, for me at a least. Does it truly resonate with you?"

For me anyhow; not regularly and rarely but it does sometimes crop up in my mind.

Blimey - Thanks Jim! Most of the qualities actually match me - I guess I don't need my Astrology For Dummies anymore

Here's what caught my eye:

• Interest in occult and recondite subjects.
• Agnostic, “Natural Mysticism.”
• Very musical (mostly vocal).
• Can judge others and themselves dispassionately.
• Sense of humor “off the beaten track.” Cynical at times.
• Strong opinions freely expressed.
• Behavior often seems unconventional but within certain personal bounds.
• Often seems to undermine relationships subconsciously.
• Don’t feel they have anything for which to apologize.
• Drawn to “group” situations, but not “joiners” except to fulfill a purpose. Socializes selectively.
• Seems “low key” if not tired.
• Sensitive, easily hurt, can be terribly touchy (but often won’t express the hurt). – Worriers: fear the worst in a strenuous situation. Potentially high anxiety level.
• Fear of dying before accomplishing what they feel they should.

Spot on!

It's been ages since I last came on here ** and I just wanna thank all of you for your comments.

Looking back at some of this I seemed pretty irrational about the whole subject I decided to bite the bullet and come out as Bisexual; which I did last month [got a bit of shit for it from some people, including my father] but to be honest, I'm becoming indifferent to people's reactions, I couldn't care a less.

Now I'm learning to go with whats going on in the moment and not attaching much to it.

Oh, Frater Potater, your comments we're really informative, thanks for posting

Dendron, I'm only starting out, and Sex Magick [whilst appealing] it's a no go subject for me at the moment, I'd rather learn to swim before I jump into the deep end

Danica, I'm a Pisces, no doubt about it. Born 1st March 1992

@Veronica said

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@Takamba said
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@SerpentSeed123 said
"^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?"

Maybe it would less confusing if you just decided you enjoy both."

I love people,
I love happy people, kind people
Healthy people, energetic people.

I would not restrict my love to say,
I am hetro
Or homo
Or bi.

Love is the Law
And if you love one fella, and what ever charateistics he brought to your relationship.....you are blessed.

And if you love some lady, and what ever she brought to the relationship, you are blessed.

And if you love whole football team, or rock band, or horde of demons, you are blessed, because you love and are loved in return.

By first mastering yourself, and giving yourself love, receiving your love and being in love, you will then be better able to see who you want to love outside of yourself."

Good advice I'm also Pisces, and according to most sources, our sexuality and life is mainly fantasy-driven, which really makes sense to me when I look back on those I've been with; it's been driven by some fantasy I had in my head at that time, and not necessarily the person's looks, or gender. I'm a complicated bugger!

Crowley himself is quite confusing, for me anyway, so I figured that this book would suit my needs for this time. I'll quote the Bible in which Paul talks about milk and meat, meat being the hard doctrine to digest, and the milk being the easy, that's where I am at the moment with Crowley/Thelema

PS. Thanks for the head's up Jim! I'll message you or something once I've read it and tell you what I thought. It seems like a beginners guide, so I know it's not going to be too complex but I hope it isn't too watered down.

PS. I bought Abrahadabra: Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thelemic Magick and that'll be coming tomorrow, any opinions on that text?

@Takamba said

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@SerpentSeed123 said
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@Takamba said
"OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks."

I've only been into 'Spirituality/Thelema' since November so I've got alot to do. What do YOU suggest I should do then ? Stop trying to discover my goal, my path, my will ?"

What little I know about you will get in the way. I'm not medically trained so I can't tell you what to do about your prescription but I personally would prefer you suspect your doctor is wrong and see what you can do about it. I recommend you practice sitting still, silent, and controlling your self. I recommend you practice controlling your thoughts and actions with thoughts and actions (fight fire with fire) and not with pills. I recommend you read and do the practices in Jim's "The Mystical and Magical System of the A .'. A .'." book because even though I've never read it I'm convinced it has everything you need, and also I recommend Israel Regardie's "One Year Manual" because I have read it and it has everything too.

I recommend Crowley's Liber ABA (Magick : Book Four) because it does have everything. Do the exercises. Make this your obsession. Don't argue about the words, take Crowley on Crowley's terms. In other words, there are no short cuts."

See, that's the reply I've been waiting for! At long last! I'll try it out. See what happens!

@Takamba said

"OCD, ADHD, and slew of other letters are thrown around as convenience in the psychiatric world because big pharma pays the bills on the academic level. And if your intent is to be a man of letters, you need those pills to support you.

Yes. I'm highly suspect of your diagnosis. For one thing, it shows a failure to succeed in the first part of Crowley's big blue opus variously known as Magick. The first part is called mysticism and it teaches you to sit still and take control of yourself. My understanding of someone who is diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is that they can't have a will of their own. If you truly believe that, you're in the wrong playground me thinks."

I've only been into 'Spirituality/Thelema' since November so I've got alot to do. What do YOU suggest I should do then ? Stop trying to discover my goal, my path, my will ?

Ha! Least your being honest;) So I'm guessing you think it doesn't exist ? and yes, I'm on Mirtazapine ... though to be honest, smoking the weed helped more :L

@Jim Eshelman said

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@SerpentSeed123 said
"^ I've done both and like I said I'm really unsure Would Yoga or anything that expands my consciousness help?"

I get the idea that you're looking for a quick answer. It doesn't usually work that way. This sort of thing clarifies over time, and continues to present new aspects of itself throughout your entire life.

I also think you're still trying to stick labels on yourself. "Let me get this thing decided once and for all!" I think the labels are likely to cause you at least frustration, if not actual pain.

How about going forth into life with a sense of how much you don't know about yourself, and the delight of having your entire life ahead of you to figure them out."

It's true that. I get really stressed or anxious not knowing certain things, and the OCD doesn't help which is why someone said I should try Yoga because it helps with anxiety etc. I'll take your advice on board and try to put it into practice. I sound like a right idiot to be honest