College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

In an ocassion in a 4chan discussion about the limits and the outsides of the universe and the Big Bang, I read a point that in some way made me thought about Kether and so on. I didn´t copied it, so it would be not exactly like it was, but he (or she, though in 4chan there are no women as they say) said that there cannot be limits in the universe, because when you say "outside", you are putting outside and inside in relation, so the "outside" became a part of the total thing. That, applied to the universe limits discussion and so on, became somehow a very good mental frame for the idea of paradoxal unity or something. But maybe it is really a used cliche thing, I don´t know. Also, I like very much the phrase "Time destroys everything" that appears in a Gaspar Noe film, though it would not be maybe so good reference in some sense.

@Takamba said

"
Oh, so you're confusing the actions of those "under the Church" with the spiritual language of The Pope himself. I see now, you aren't talking about "spiritual vessels," you are talking about human beings. Many a Thelemite has been to prison, before and after recognizing their flaws. Let's condemn Jim for that! "

Yeah, we DEMAND an explication from him or, at least, a response, lol.

I was doubting, seeing how you mix both things, "Roman Catholic Church" and the fucking Pope, and the "spiritual" thing. I still don´t see clear some things, but well I haven´t time enough now in any case.

@Takamba said

" It is right to add cream to tea if you enjoy that sort of thing, but not if the tea is still boiling (as the cream will curdle and taste sour)."

I was going to make a joke about bishop´s raping children before and after the new aeon with that, but I desisted because I know you are sensible people.

I simply disagree with you and admit it: I´m an obvious case of black and white thinking. I think the evolution of conciousness from one aeon to another don´t change the fact that things like murder, opression, enslavement, looting, etc etc (that things Roman Catholic Church did and still do, you know), are simply, let´s say it this way, inadvisable in any time moment.

In other order of things, about the believing in Jesus, "good christianity", and so on, I don´t give a fvck, they can do whatever they want.

Was right what the church did in the past, but it´s not right now, when they are still the same rancid bullshit? I don´t get that.

@Takamba said

"Roman Catholic Church ... was a righted vessel at one time or another."

Ehhmm... No.

@Patthana Gati said

"
It's not homophobic - it's reclamation. "

But how can it be otherwise, for the complete whore I am? And useful that I have come to my 156 post, to worship the mother of all whores Babalon, and that I just gain enough whore-money for music equipment that I just received already today, I retire myself to my new studio temple, for I have better things to do now than go around in eternal circles in internet forums. It has been a.. pleasure? to been here with all of you.

I appreciate the asperger irony, Kasper, but it was merely a joke or a way of speaking. Don´t you realized after this last month I am active in the forum that I´m bisexual and basically against all kind of bigotry and intolerance? Just that, I guessed you deserve an explanation, after all. I´m sorry anyway, I promise to suck more dicks after this. Get this, it´s in spanish but well, my way of saying "forgive me": www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ukMQDh8nxkI#!

I only know Macbeth from Shakespeare, I would like to know more. Coil have a soundtrack on Shakespeare sonets, "The Angelic conversation", for a faggotry film of Derek Jarman. This song used to gave me chills, stills do it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Lthi-QhW8

"To me, fair friend, you never can be old, For as
you were when first your eye I eyed, Such seems
your beauty still. Three winters cold Have from
the forests shook three summers' pride, Three
beauteous springs to yellow autumn turn'd In
process of the seasons have I seen, Three April
perfumes in three hot Junes burn'd, Since first I
saw you fresh, which yet are green. Ah! yet doth
beauty, like a dial-hand, Steal from his figure
and no pace perceived; So your sweet hue, which
methinks still doth stand, Hath motion and mine
eye may be deceived: For fear of which, hear this,
thou age unbred; Ere you were born was beauty's
summer dead."*

@Jim Eshelman said

"
I define faith as the language of superconsciousness. It isn't "unreal" unless you define "unreal" as necessarily including any cognitive content that can arise without physical sensation, reason, or emotion / pattern recognition."

Name dropping time: Tarkovsky´s best film, "Stalker", centers on a idea of "faith" that could fit pretty well with that definition.

The mad men of a lot of countries envy you yankees for your facility for to have guns. The second amedment, in fact, had originally the purpouse of take care of the population if the government would became corrupt. That way people could defense themselves from opression and so on. I don´t remember the details, but that was the essence, anyway I suppose that it´s well knowed thing. Today there´s the discussion about the fire weapons, but well the thing has got much more complicated than in the past, or that it seems.

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@SmokingMonkey said
"Well one thing is a master as a personal mentor or something, and another a teacher. I was referring rather to the first one. Of course one can learn from a teacher or a variety of them in an school environment, the same way as one can learn from books and practice and mixing with people of the environtment in a freelance way."

One learns, hopefully, from everybody.

BTW, you do know (don't you?) that the word "master" most fundamentally means "teacher," yes? Only in modern time does it have the implication of boss, slave-owner, or the like. In addition to the secondary (associated) meaning of "someone with great skill," etc., the Latin magister (the sense in which we use the word) means "teacher." (This has only tended to survive in modern times in the term "headmaster," or "head teacher.")"

In theory it could be, but "master" always sound much more high than teacher. At least, when someone refers to a "master of painting" or whatever, you know already what they are talking about.

Btw, refering to the technique that was on target before, a quote of Plato I think every student of whatever should have to have stuck in over it´s head bed:

"
"He who approaches to the temple of the muses without inspiration, believing that mere technical it´s enough, will always be a thief and his poetry will be obscured by the songs of the maniacs""

@Jim Eshelman said

"
@SmokingMonkey said
"...from my experiencie I´d say that the only valid relationship between a master and a "student" is usually almost casual and of friendship and collaboration, it has to be a mutual thing and in equal conditions, both have to have something to lose from that, otherwise, pure bullshit."

That's very narrow view. For most places through most of history, there has been a dedicated studenship - ashram environments being an example. People leaving home and dedicating years of their lives to study and drill under close observation.

In modern times, we've gained some things and lost some things by endeavoring to do the same thing mostly in non-monastic contexts."

Well one thing is a master as a personal mentor or something, and another a teacher. I was referring rather to the first one. Of course one can learn from a teacher or a variety of them in an school environment, the same way as one can learn from books and practice and mixing with people of the environtment in a freelance way. The important thing in any case is aside, in it´s most part.

What I don´t get of this "school learning" thing is that sort bureaucratic language. I know schools have to make it serious and that, but it still sounds a little.. artificial. The thing is I´ve known so many mediocre and untalented people with the mentality that joining a class of whatever they will to learn to do that thing, when they only learn mere technique, that I´m inclinned to think that the very most part of an school of that kind has to be of that type. And for the master/student relationship.. I don´t know how that goes in a "school" , but from my experiencie I´d say that the only valid relationship between a master and a "student" is usually almost casual and of friendship and collaboration, it has to be a mutual thing and in equal conditions, both have to have something to lose from that, otherwise, pure bullshit.

I was thinking that the similarities between The Wicker Man and THe Cabin in the Woods could be more than the most evidents of the sacrifice and the social ritual thing, but they would be difficult to explain without enter in too much details and so on. I only would say that I think that "The Cabin" goes much far away and have a more radical conclusion (and sort of surprising coming from a superproduction): that better is the destruction of the whole human race by it´s own destructive old essence, than the perpetuation of a lie based on the "management" of suffering by a social elite, for try to appease the wrath of that Ancient Gods, the old destructive essence of the human being.

I don´t meant exactly to the sacrifice, but the life on the island the cop is seeing along the movie, etc. It isn´t an utopia, clearly, in fact most of the things are taken from european pagan traditions still alive in that moment, but the idea of the island like an independent place with his own laws and so on fits with that idea. The sacrifice thing it´s the only thing that turns things to the superstition and makes you questioning all you have seen, until that moment, all ok.

The recent movie The Cabin in the Woods touch the theme of the sacrifice very well too, making a relationship between old aeonic sacrifice and governamental control over the mankind. Very similar to the end of The Wicker Man in some sense, with sacrifices and suffering and complex rituals (as victims do it by their "own choice") to appease the wrath of the Ancient Gods and so on, with the excuse of "to save mankind".

What a great film is The Wicker Man, for fucks sake. I just thought that it would fit great in the thread, as a sort of example of pagan or somewhat modern utopy, not exactly thelemic, but similar somehow.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDLi4v8evJM

By the way, when we will could see a movie about the Abadie of Thelema? It would be time for a decent Crowley cinema adaptation or biopic, the most references parts I´ve seen are pure bullshit.

@Uni_Verse said

"Government, at this point in time, seems to exist as people are too lazy to govern themselves.
There seems to be an entire culture of "passing the blame" on to someone else.
If is all way something "outside" which they are "helpless" against that is destroying them.

So, I entirely agree with Danica (if I am reading properly):
When people begin to govern themselves, government as an institution will no longer be required.

I have all ways kind of avoided these "Thelemic Government" thread, as essentially what I would seek to create is a utopian spiritual oligarchy.
Where in theory, each person in government would be required to sacrifice their ego, parts of their Self, in order to become an embodiment of the people they govern (kind of how it is suppose to happen anyway).
"Stan" ceases to be "Stan" and transmutes him self into "Texas" or "England" what have you...

Power is nothing more than the shadow of responsibility."

Again, I suppose you are talking hypotethically, about an ideal or utopian world, because if you are talking about the actual world, kid, I don´t know in what world you live, you have must lived in a bubble or something all your life.

"Laziness", good theory, the people who daily would have to go to the street and burn it, they doesn´t do it because of "laziness". I totally agree, because they have very good reasons for to do such thing.

@danica said

"I see a tendency among some here to view the Government as something outside which essentially acts as an enemy to personal freedom.

do you govern yourself, individual? if so, than no outside government is an enemy or a threat."

Depends of the context. I don´t know exactly what are you referring to, but well, in an ideal world, ok, no government and lollipops for everybody. But in the world of today, what you say sounds pretty vain and cliche, and it´s inevitably that it leaves you aside of that same governments, who precisely wants you to pray the same God who is fuking humanity, and drop off your individuality and join to the most non-dangerous crowd mentality of apolitical people. And have a political position doesn´t really mean to play with the rules that they bring us, choosing A, B, or even C, and discuss over them, but to learn to think for oneself and be aware of the dynamics of dirty power presents everywhere, and what to do with them from your most deep convictions.

Well I´m not interested in semantics too, I think what I mean is pretty clear in general lines, but anyway, I´m not exactly talking about moral, or at least, not of the common moral. About a more appropriate moral for the heterogeneous variety of mankind, allowing maximum freedom as possible and so on. perhaps. If you Bereshith want to go to a determined place, be more clear about where you want to go and we will follow you happily.

Real insanity and losing of sense of reality have much to do with losing the sense of the real difference between right and wrong. And that have nothing to do with more or less waking dreams presents in our life, in fact most of that respected psychiatrists and judgemental doctors dicks, so firm in their assertions of reality and sanity, are no further from the true insanity than any of the common crazy heads could be.