Bdsm, Magick, and a tantric theory??(not sure)

pixie_pseuicide

I thought i'd share what i typed as a (long winded) reply to Solitarius in my introduction. For those who i havent had the pleasure of speaking to yet i'm in a BDSM Master/slave life in connection to Magick and practise (amongst a few other reasons lol)

i'm not sure how it will be out of context and i'm a bit nervous on relating as i was then but maybe somebody could shed a bit of light on it? or another angle? who knows... here goes lol

The old bdsm cliche, especially in submissives and slaves, is the whole "i've never been freer inside his/her restrictions" theme... i grudgingly admit its true lol, because its corny.

its an extremely selfish place, being a slave (misleading too) See i'm loved and wanted enough that a man i happen to adore and love beyond reason wants to OWN me.. somebody i feel is way out of my league and i'm privillaged to be in his company, let alone be his prized possession...

But there is the physical too.. a lot of the time all a slave has to do is what they able to, and probably should have gotton done already- i procrastinate HORRIBLY and i get down because of the results of this, yet i do nothing about it past short bursts and not everything i get done actually gets finished.. now when i'm doing housework, i'm not just doing housework, i'm not just making the home nice for our family, i'm not just making the bed. In all these actions i do as a housewife and mother (a lot of women would agree that a lot goes un noticed or seems to if you hold it against them or not) i can also showcase how perfect i can do that job and i give myself more time to do things and grow more efficiant within this, and i'm doing it for HIM... whilst anybody can do this under any freedom, only a slave HAS to do it, and has no right to wriggle out of it...and i go to sleep feeling like i did SO much that day...that i really ticked off this list and i'm opening up more time and space to spend doing special things with my Master, more room for ritual and games of blatent control and manipulation. (we're over crowded in a two bed flat right now, with three kids, space and option is limited lol!!)

sexually a lot of the time a slave just has to be there.., to be used seperates your mind from your body... in following orders such as trying to do things against the flow of my body it trances and stones you a little bit lol...if you mean it, and you know it, and you love proving it over and over (which some would be right to say that we're reassuring ourselves its real, but i'm looking forward to the stage where there is nothing reassuring in being his slave... when it scary or hard, and i really have to push myself past limits of physical endurance and mental strength, complexes etc... i know that sounds a bit messed up, but my god... the strength i'd have under my belt by the end of it, the physical endurance, the ability to travel so far inside myself that things....happen.

Every sexual kink we discover is - in my mind at least - proof to the gods or demons or djinn or dieties, that my sexual energy is DEFINATELY his to give... this is where it gets spiritual lol...

i feel other people and can gage human emotion pretty well..i can reinact it and push it out, and pinpoint it...like scanning i think, but more importantly i'm learning what i can do with this (lets be honest) pretty useless "gift"... i've already rambled so i may as well ramble a little bit more...another pretty useless "gift" is knowing when someone is going to walk in a room or come through it (used to scare my friends growing up when i run out right before they got busted for being somewhere they wasnt meant to be lol) i beleive i feel this through the shift in energy?? i dont know and wouldnt know where to begin finding answers to those things..(do you? LOL tell me)

anyways... today i come up with a bit of inspiration...i'd been at the dentist and had a tooth that needed pulling filled (it needs to go its so painfull!) and a wisdom tooth pulled..my Master said that he wonders if he's learn to pick up on me because the "hinges" (lol) of his mouth felt so stretched like he'd been pulled and pried at, he said "i dont know if you're pushing it out but..-" and i realised i WAS. the minute i pulled it back i could feel the pain of my teeth where he'd been talking about it come back, and felt the sensation behind my ears drop...i remembered a time my son fell and i seriously thought he'd broken his neck...we ran running over to him and i'm forcing myself to be calm and block out any panic, Master looked at me and said "you have to calm down you're swamping me" .. thats the first time i felt that energy in my ears drop... its the step into knowing when i'm pushing out...and when i shouldnt be..and what the repacussions will be...feeling this emotions i dont want to lol.. Anyway this lead me to my sexual energy that we barter for payment... and fantasies i'd had growing up (yeah im twisted...what can i say...) about desperately not wanting to cum, blocking out every peice of pleasure, using all my strength in resistance to block it out...and jesus the orgasm was overwhelming afterwards, and i always felt...watched or rather fancied myself so.. i beleive i gave a gap something could imagine themselves creating??not even sure... but it translates so beautifully...
All i have to do to litrelly throw my energy out of my body so Master can present it, is to with every fibre and being choose to NOT feel pleasure, to NOT savour those moments but convince yourself that those normally wonderous feelings are bland and unreactive.. lol.. i said this to Master and he said i'd described tantra in a sentance lmfao...i've been meaning to look into that, the tantric vampire seems to be very similar to what we do.. if i'm manipulated into strongly doing this, say...by order, with a DAMNED hefty punishment should i do it and enjoy it that i honest to god dont want, then ill be able to reinact this senario minus the non consensual setting LOL...come on...you already knew i was a bit of a pervert haha

god i'm a bit embarrased at that a little i'm either going to put forth a plausable idea, OR i've just proved myself an utter idiot HA ...
...its all in the visuals you can truely beleive in..

Btw i love that shake too...earthshattering sometimes because you're going to have to look up the SAME things you already thought you knew to find yet another angle to see things from..but you get answer after answer after answer when this happens!!!

hope i didnt sound like an idiot slaps forhead

Poet

Thank you for so openly sharing your thoughts.

I hope you would permit me the same.

I read little there beyond someone with such low self-esteem and poor self-image that it saddened me.

"out of my league" "privileged to be in his company" - these are not the statements of a self-confident person in my experience.

You are a Star (not a "prized possession"). There is no-one out of anyone's league. There is no league.

Your openness tells me you most likely will have already thought about these things, and I can't help wonder if rather than it being a mutually supportive relationship, it tends towards one where both sides are taking advantage of each other to reinforce A) low self-esteem B) a need to control another (an introverted form of low self-esteem).

How would you respond to that perspective on what you wrote?

I also wonder about how children brought up in such an atmosphere might develop.
Have you noticed in your children a tendency towards self-confidence or do you see elements of the dom/sub traits in them?

Corvinae

"i dont know and wouldnt know where to begin finding answers to those things..(do you? LOL tell me)"

www.amazon.com/Female-Brain-Louann-Brizendine-M-D/dp/0767920090

While this book has many flaws, it is a great place to start to understand how a woman thinks, or better "why" a woman thinks. I highly recommend the works of Christine Northrup as well.

I can relate to some of what you say, or at least I can understand the perspective of the practice. As a person who grewy up in a violent, drug and alcholic family-whoes members pretty much all had severe levels of disfunction.....I see deep parrallels with the bdsm community.

But in my situation the players were in denial, where as it appears in the bdsm it is in the open. Now I seemed to have saved myself from the paths of addiction and slavery.....but then again as I ponder it I wonder if I am just fooling myself....

Personally I find the whole bdsm thing a veil, and a facade...it is a power issue, and since I personally have issue with power, well it just aint my bag baby....but if you are happy....

The one thing though for me is that I know each moment of each day I have two choices, I can do things that are right and help others, or I can do things that are selfish and serve only me. while it appears that bdsm (esp. the slave role) is not selfish, apearances are not always the truth. While I will the first to say that some jack Arses need a swift hit upside the head with the reality stick, that it is much differnt hurt then being choked, or burned, or what ever.

When I was still a teenie bopper, I devoted myself to Love in all its guises, in all its forms and have worked closely with pantheons, and enties so that I could grow not only in understanding but in practice. I am happy that people are able to have fun, and work through issues with this form of energy work, yet I wonder why it is that it does not stay with then, for most all outgrow it, and the ones that dont IME fall into deep depravity, addiction, and destitution.

I personally do not like being caged, and forced to do things against my will. But I know that natures abundance is diverse, and what a shame if we were all alike:)

pixie_pseuicide

ooo i like the paths you both took thank you both for taking the time to read what i've written

Poet you took me aback a little bit, and i had to go back and read what i'd written

"its an extremely selfish place, being a slave (misleading too) See i'm loved and wanted enough that a man i happen to adore and love beyond reason wants to OWN me.. somebody i feel is way out of my league and i'm privillaged to be in his company, let alone be his prized possession..."

you said

"I read little there beyond someone with such low self-esteem and poor self-image that it saddened me.

"out of my league" "privileged to be in his company" - these are not the statements of a self-confident person in my experience."

lol i was trying to describe how lucky i felt to be His, and to be honest i'm in awe in bewilderment too, i was trying to nutshell the miracle of us meeting (ive gone into this on a soulmate discussion in the genrel chat page if it helps to shed light a little?) and even on a shallow level, to have not laid eyes on him for so long to have fallen in love with his manner and his personality, and his intellagence, and yet he be the exact image of "the perfect guy for me" i used to sit and think about as a little girl and growing up...

"somebody i feel is way out of my league and i'm privillaged to be in his company, let alone be his prized possession.."

Everybody aspires to be something.. i personally aspire to shed every morsal of embarrasment and shame (in one sense) to be confident enough to have all my different persona's and sides meet inside the same body.. not as seperate identities, but as a whole. I beleive i'll find my "zone" to enjoy life to the fullest and seek opportunity for all manner of things..its already proving to work and come true (i'm excited to say) ... one aspect that i love about my Master the most is his forwardness... he talks truth to me like it's common sense... he comes from such a different angle to mine, yet its simply the "other end" of the spectrum lol.. This tends to be the type of person i gravitate towards and find the most fun inside of lol.. In this i've become so much stronger than the me before i enetered the TPS (Total Power Surrender) and i'm not exactly "suffering" to find the rewards.. I know i'm his Prized Possession because he's had a huge hand in making me who i am. He's drawn out and found smooth ways for me to be the way i truely want to be around him ( to ACT as his slave for example... instead of just talk the rudiments of the subject if you know what i mean) and he's been patient through all my own self destructive "blocks" i've put up to stop me attaining what it is i want... the more embarrasment i shed the closer we can get... He's taught me so many "life lessons" and helped me understand some very hard things to get my head around, and he's the first person i've ever talked politics to and he's PROUD of me that i form my own opinions and even prouder when i can wow him in an argument his own oppinion couldn't detract from etc.. He's proud of my bravery (facing my fears) and strength and determination i demonstrate by doing so... He protects me anything harmfull and pampers me considerably when i've pushed myself to catch up with him or had to face a particulary hard fear.. he treats me like his prized posession, and as the slave heart desperate needs to feel owned, this is in fact the most beautiful things in the world... it sates me...

I DO tend to ramble lol but i hope i cleared that up?? of course its completely okay if you still dont agree (gotta love debates lol) and if you still feel the same way?

Corvinae

I really have to say something more here, about this thread. I wouldnt be true to myself if I didnt. I thought I could just let it go, but as I lay in bed my mind was on fire and I have to get this off my chest. So here it goes....

I dont even know how to spit this all out, and I think I may show a side of my character that doesnt get out much.

Part of my work here on this plane has been with women and children who are in severe distress, who are involved in domestic violence, abuse, addiction, forced prostitiution and a host of other wonderful aspect of society. I help them as best I can, for free, becuase I personally know what it is like to be on the recieving end and what a blessing (and life changing event) it can be to have a helping hand.

For me, the teachings of My Beloved AC empowered me to change my life to make it what I willed it to be. For me the teachings of Thelema are about MY will, my power, my love, my life as well as the Source of Me, and all of everything else. For me it is complete and utter bullsh*t to read (or hear) about how another human beings love of me (or you, or whatever) is what makes the world go round. I offer no applogies when I say that while I love my husband, and my lids, and my family I truely could give a rats Arse if they loved me back.

When I hear a sister say that they are not worhty, that they could not get better, that they are lucky to have, blah blah blah....it makes me want to scream. I am so fed up with this crappy status quo, and society that seems to dictate that not only that there are slaves.....but that women are slaves.

What the Fu&*! There are hundreds of thousands of woman and children who are literally, physically captives, slaves, IN REAL LIFE!!! all over the world. Right in your neighborhood, there are brothels where a man can pay a price to do ANYTHING he wants to another human being....(OK so a lady could pay too, but 99.99999% of clients are males) and you want me to come to this fantastic board that the most honorable Mr. Eshelman has created to teach us about personal will, and love and tell about your GAME of slave and master, and how this is really making you a better person, and that your beautiful children will not be harmed, or effected, and that the love you have is so beautiful.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

Dont waste your breathe explaining the high magick, the whole nine yards, I know from personal expierence what it is all about and it is utter bull.

Kinky sex is one thing, and I have no problem with people playing around, and having fun and expiermenting.....I do have a problem listeing to a lady talk about her Master, and what a great guy and father he is (which I am sure he is, but I dont need the preface.....)

I have been busting my ass to get rid of this slave mentality for all my brothers and sister it is a dead horse, old aeon, and I guess it just irks the hell out of me to see people think it is game and willinging put the shackels on and give there power away.

All my life I have had boys, guys, men, tell me that I was too good for them, that I was too beautiful too smart, too funny, the whole package.....all a bunch of bull to allow them to not be all they could be, for if they were with a woman like me they would have to step up and be a man, and take responisblity, and take charege and work and be and change......I spent more nights at home then all my "ugly stupid" girlfriends......it is a cop out to say that you are not an equal to anyone.

I will not bow down, or have any bow before me. I dont care who it is, and neither should you. If I knew of anyone who had kids, who acted like you are talking....I would have no problem calling child protective services, I have many friends thier.

Now to be gentle I understand that the internet allows freedoms that may not be truths, and I can appreciate pushing the envelope so to speak. But while so many of my Sisters (and Little ones ) are sold, and hurt, and raped, and killed DAILY I will not sit back and quietly listen to this tripe.

pixie_pseuicide

Veronica lol... "why" a woman thinks.. ill look into it but that tickled me a bit lolol

"I can relate to some of what you say, or at least I can understand the perspective of the practice. As a person who grewy up in a violent, drug and alcholic family-whoes members pretty much all had severe levels of disfunction.....I see deep parrallels with the bdsm community.

But in my situation the players were in denial, where as it appears in the bdsm it is in the open. Now I seemed to have saved myself from the paths of addiction and slavery.....but then again as I ponder it I wonder if I am just fooling myself...."

Yes there's definately a level of disfunction on both sides...but who is completely in tact when they reach adulthood, lol?

In the BDSM community (i think a lot of the attitude towards it is pompos and hokey and completely self deficating a point lol) everyones a little pyscho...most subs/slaves have been in abusive relationships.. (a right of passage i'm afraid before you realise that BDSM exists and some "rules" have been set up for SSC (Safe Sane Consensual) you have to learn to differenciate between dominANT and dominEERING pretty quickly... theres allways an asshole lurkin who thinks he is a big shot, or a vest somewhere that thinks he's the Master of Masters and acts acordinly..he aint focused on you baby lol...

Sadism and Masochism arent always there with Bondage and Dominance and vise versa... i consider myself both sadistic and masochistic (why its safer to be a submissive LOL...i think i'd get too into it lol...) yet Top+Bottom culture leads a different circle for the most part.

When im very upset or frustrated or feeling down, i could ask my Master to flog me -which beleive it or not is very nice and sends you into a bit of a trance- i know that it would make me feel insanely better and comforted at the same time... i havnt actually done this before for that reason (i dont recall..he may say otherwise lol) but i remember the moment i realised i could...this seemed like a bonus to having a master lol.. i'm not self destructive or a "cutter" or anything like that the effects would increase my endorphins and make me feel immediately better.... so i see why so many people flock to bdsm for the reason of it helping them over a personal seperate emotional "hiccup" lol.. (i have however asked him to do it after having had sex and not being able to float back down yet... submissive go into what the bdsm world call "subspace" .. its completely disoriantating and you speak all manner of jibberish sometimes...like after you've just been woken up and have been dreaming... i dont know if it did the trick, getting slapped on the ass over and over (it felt good reguardless lmao) or if i had to force myself to carry on like normal because i didnt want to ask him for something else too when we're both desperate to get in a tea coffee and smoke lol.. who knows..

"The one thing though for me is that I know each moment of each day I have two choices, I can do things that are right and help others, or I can do things that are selfish and serve only me. "

In the context of a slave, (or anyone who really loves thier partner and is simply consequtively considerate) the "good dead" is in the amount of attention you put into it... the extra effort of "offering" to make the next drinks before its comes to him "telling" me to make it and reminding me of my place (slightly irritating, girls, i gotta tell ya lol...this used to be where i'd stumbled or disobeyed the most, i'd argue or moan a lot of the time lol...) i'm giving him instant gratification, (also on another path, I am translating his will into manifestation, thus getting the ball rolling on anything Magickal he's working on) i am also using this time to show how much i love him... its fun to spend our time expressing this, we are very close as you can probably tell. When he tells me to go and make our bed before we retire for the night, i have the whole time to think about how far i've come in my initial goal slavery...how i'm checking off my own fantasies that i've brought to life through my Master and my openess to him.. giving him access to the dirty thoughts you think of when you're younger but still kinda do it for you... (because these tend to lend themselves towards our research links, it gets very exciting lol)

Why it isnt selfish is because my level of "pampering" him, he returns by "pampering" me - which he did and does even when this isnt on our minds for whatever reasons no matter how rare- and he pulls his weight in the chores in the house etc, he isnt being completely selfish either- but the difference between being pampered for no reason (which is lovely in itself) and being pampered in recognition of my effort and enthusism and going the extra mile to keep his life smoother.... now THAT feels amazing, and i can REALLY enjoy it and savour it.. i'm current going through this now, i had a dentist appointment yesterday and i was very brave had a tooth taken and one filled (my mother had munchausens by proxy, i have a huge fear of putting myself in these medical situations) and i'd never had any work on my teeth before.. i was brave gotthe injections and forced myself to stay calm and let them do it... Master recognised the effort i went to to do this and also knew exactly how to comfort me because he knows how my body deals with what anxieties and discomfort and pain exactly... i knew he was right there in my head with me.... he's pampered me silly since and has been telling me how proud he is of me lol..

i aint that fragile or anything lol, but i had a tough upbringing (like most people) actually thinking of cashing in and writing a book on it lol.. i'm a strong person before this...i'm a stronger person during this...and ill be a stronger person yet by the time i'm even a year ahead.

"while it appears that bdsm (esp. the slave role) is not selfish, apearances are not always the truth. While I will the first to say that some jack Arses need a swift hit upside the head with the reality stick, that it is much differnt hurt then being choked, or burned, or what ever."

i agree... most people just like to feel up themselves lol.. i know a lot of idiots who are given far too much admiration in certain bdsm circles i know off...its so overblown and pompus its sickening sometimes...lol..

"I personally do not like being caged, and forced to do things against my will. But I know that natures abundance is diverse, and what a shame if we were all alike:)"

lol i'm claustrophobic in ever other other setting.... but then i've been waiting a long time thinking about how restraints would feel from a sexual side. sometimes it still messes with me but i just keep going.. i know if i got really bad Master would hurry and get me loose.

One misconception is that those who follow BDSM or similar paths is that its non consensual... everything is consensual and the amount of freedoms placed on a slave is frustrating to one trying to loose them and forget they were ever there lol.. (lots of people get off on the idea of forced to do it, so they have no responcability for the experience and therefore dont have to admit it...my old saying you have to admit before you can submit.. no point trying before that point lol.

Most couples have "contracts" of what they dont want, boundarys that arent to be crossed in anyway. Submissives are different from Slaves... a submissive has teh right to say no and reserve things...a slave doesnt ... yet the funny thing is, like myself.. i couldnt express myself that way, OR acheive what i wanted to in my character development incorporate with those options there. Safewords are common place.

i love how wacky everyone is in this little world lol.. i dont seem quite extravagently insane next to certain types of people haha...

sorry if i've been long winded!!

pixie_pseuicide

Thats all very well and good dear but if i thought myself less than worthy i would have stayed single, and secondly that would be an extremely sad existance.

what i do, and what i beleive, has no cause or effect and is no reinactment of the horrible treatment people receive on this plannet, i think you'd agree thats a pretty insane idea that it is directly related.

Also i suggest maybe reading up on D/s and seeing past a lot of the misconception (or if not then you'll just have to take or refuse my word there is nothing abusive about a SSC relationship)

My children see no different elements to thier parents than of anybody elses in love. i dont go around in slave harness in broad daylight with a ballgag in walking in very uncomfortable looking ballet shoes with a plug up my ass and a carrot between fingers, LOL . its our sex life. its seperate, and in the bedroom. When it isnt seperate and in teh bedroom, is when the children arent around and we are researching Magick and Sex Magick , religions, theories, practises, cultures, histories, relations,astrology,astromony,tarot,divination etc. We research our things and practise Magick whilst still developing our theories on other subjects- OFTEN directly enlightened in the process. Its the Sex Energy it gives off can be used and batered.

I'm sorry you're saddened by your perception of BDSM. you needent be, that isnt what it is.

pixie_pseuicide

Also your concept of "escaping" slavery implies you already had yourself convinced everybody goes through this phase? It's simply one path of getting from A to B, there are MANY alternatives.

The reason i FOUND this board to begin with was because Thelema includes BDSM rituals in thier ceromonies, so if anything i'm a glowing representation of those in my line.

Feminism doesnt come into what i do (although its portrayed by mistress's porn videos, you hardly ever see a bdsm porn with a male dominant and female slave... and btw...there are plenty male slaves too, just as there are legitimate female domme's too (not that i can personally understand that route to explain. esp in terms of Magick) The possessing is in the owning is in the right to give sacrifice. and it was all my own idea that his just happened to match.

another time old beaten cliche in the bdsm circles is "a slave is not a doormat" . truely i suggest if it keeps you awake at night in fury, looking a little up about it. i can suggest some links if you're interested.

pixie_pseuicide

it also directly relates to Goddess Worship also, which is all about empowering women.

izzy_suicide

sometimes i read a thing,or hear a thing,somebody says,online or real life,and ponder how exactly people can bare wallowing in the drifting nothingness of pity and remorse.Others swim untill breathless on thier own pleasure and surf like some beautifull speed freak into the same greyness.

      truth is never in things,but between them



    Now,to be clear,i am fully aware how people all over the world are victimised and used and bought and sold and blahblahblah,long story short,everybodys had a crap life,no matter what way folks want to measure it.Doesnt matter if youre an 8 year old girl threading rusted needles to sew primark t-shirts in some god forsaken sweatshop,the fat kid at school who everyone beat the head off of,the wife of the drunkard with the temper,or the crackhead looking for a coke can in a backalley,one way or another friends,everyone has a cross to bear just like little weeping jesus,and somehow,in his footsteps(on a beach where i found myelf alone cuz god said...&quot;youre too heavy,bugger off kid&quot;)...to lure others into feeding that sense of pity,remorse,shame and pain.This was the joke played on us all by birthright,we are born to suffer.

  i believe this to be true because of my own upbringing,which quite honestly,would make a made for tv movie script and turn stomachs nationwide.

 see folks,i've hung with the whores,junkies,punks,skinheads,rastas,broken hearted and super elated.i enjoy the company of each for its own reasons,but i never wallowed in pity in my life.we're ABOVE that folks.you and me both kid,make no mistake,are gods of some great design.and everyone knows,all great myths have tragedy.

however,these atrocities and sins have no bearing on the mind of one who understands true liberation.we can never be free,but we can FEEL free,by any means necessary.its up to everyone to choose what path opens the gates,and isnt for anyone else to decide for us.That was the worm inside the serpents apple and the whisper in eves ear.it doesnt matter whats been done,its what we CAN do that counts.

for me and mine,bdsm opens the gate papa legba first showed me when i started to learn,down a path to the crossroads where many have sat and waited for the man to come.i've seen him multiple times now,and believe it or not,all he's ever asked for is a mug of black coffee and some tobacco.

not an image in my head folks...not an apparation or vision....physical manifestation.and i've only been practising for two years. GONZO thelema-chaos-santeria combinations have worked for me very well,and i recommend anyone to try them without fear,the demons be friendly,they just dont take a very good picture most times....

my question after all this long winded rambling is,if one cannot seperate the self from the higher self,why bother?.i usually find that people who bleed for the pain of others tend to complain about results in thier own path.maybe we're meant to be selfish and more than a little pretentious?....if you think about it,crowley was the first rock star,perhaps jesus before him,soloman before that...NONE of these people had YOUR interests in mind when they performed thier miricles.are we meant to follow suit?

Avshalom Binyamin

There is nothing wrong with BDSM.

We're all acting out the contents of our mind in our relationships with others, whether we're aware of it or not. At least BDSM has a formality to it that can assist in creating the trust that enables the partners to really act out their anima/animus roles with gusto.

We just try to remind ourselves that this is the goal

"i personally aspire to shed every morsal of embarrasment and shame (in one sense) to be confident enough to have all my different persona's and sides meet inside the same body.. not as seperate identities, but as a whole"

And we try to remember that, if we're doing BDSM right, that it should result in personal growth. Subs will learn to internalize/integrate some of the traits of doms, being able to be more assertive. Doms will learn to be more intuitive and nurturing. BDSM play should evolve to reflect this increasing sophistication over time.

TheSilent1

@AvshalomBinyamin said

"There is nothing wrong with BDSM.

We're all acting out the contents of our mind in our relationships with others, whether we're aware of it or not. At least BDSM has a formality to it that can make assist in creating the trust that enables the partners to really act out their anima/animus roles with gusto.

We just try to remind ourselves that this is the goal

"i personally aspire to shed every morsal of embarrasment and shame (in one sense) to be confident enough to have all my different persona's and sides meet inside the same body.. not as seperate identities, but as a whole"

And we try to remember that, if we're doing BDSM right, that it should result in personal growth. Subs will learn to internalize/integrate some of the traits of doms, being able to be more assertive. Doms will learn to be more intuitive and nurturing. BDSM play should evolve to reflect this increasing sophistication over time."

Took the words right off of my keyboard!

pixie_pseuicide

Yeah he puts it well doesnt he grins

Poet

There is a fine line between minding where someone else chooses to stick their wick so to speak and proclaiming freedom solely through another's fiat.
Reminds me of the Malcolm X's distinctions about the Field and House negroes.

"If you're afraid of black nationalism, you're afraid of revolution. And if you love revolution, you love black nationalism. To understand this, you have to go back to what the young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro back during slavery. There were two kinds of slaves, the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes — they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good because they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved the master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master's house — quicker than the master would. If the master said, "We got a good house here," the house Negro would say, "Yeah, we got a good house here." Whenever the master said "we," he said "we." That's how you can tell a house Negro.

If the master's house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master, more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, "Let's run away, let's escape, let's separate," the house Negro would look at you and say, "Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a "house nigger." And that's what we call them today, because we've still got some house niggers running around here.

The field Negro was beaten from morning to night; he lived in a shack, in a hut; he wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master, but that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn't try to put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he'd die. If someone came to the field Negro and said, "Let's separate, let's run," he didn't say, "Where we going?" He'd say, "Any place is better than here."

We all know what happened to Crowley's "Prized possessions"

izzy_suicide

poet,i enjoyed reading your post ,and its made my mind wander a bit about some things,so i'ld like to reply.before i begin though,i'ld like to say,what i post may offend some people,i understand that my point of view may not be for everyone,but make no bones,i'm no racist.

                     first,we by now all realize that the very word &quot;slave&quot; conjures images of horrors and suffering,of unlimited cruelty and the ugliness of mans true nature.

                     however,what strikes me as odd is,in thes modern times,and for all my 33 years of existance,the word &quot;slave&quot; is always attributed to a black person in most peoples eyes.the televised image of kunta kinte,stolen from his home and chained,beaten,crippled and in the end,owned even in his death seems to be the popular view on &quot;that dark time in history&quot;....i aint ashamed to admit it,i cried like a baby when fiddler died,it made me sick to be a white man.for a moment as i dried my eyes,i was almost ashamed to be called &quot;master&quot; by my pixie.

                     however,at some point or other,every race has given its share of slaves.we've just had the image of the bound black man forced upon us more and more in recent years,and i believe its been used as a sigil by someone with a much greater understanding of the spirits than i.

                     but can we truely dismiss the thought that without those periods in history (and argueably today),we'ld truely be better off now?....take a while and actually consider that idea....had no one ever taken a slave of ay kind....where would we be as humans RIGHT NOW.

                     i am a r/l master as i think most already are aware, in a tps relationship.its not a total power exchange,its total power surrender,which makes my next thought clearer.

                     the field slave did dispise thier masters,thats true,and the house slave played the role of &quot;good nigger&quot;.the underlying difference between both and a bdsm slave is.....neither the field slave or the house slave had the choice to serve,and in that very statement rends any comparison completely useless.its not like comparing apples and oranges which will both only turn out to be fruit,its comparing styrofoam to jupiter.unrelated.this undisputable fact however does not and will not stop the link from being made in many peoples eyes that one must be the other.in my opinion,its in the ability to have made the choice to BE a slave,to submit,to suurender,to press onward through fear and hunger that makes bdsm a usable tool for magickal work.for lack of a better way of explaining a very complicated ramble,imagine if the magic wand could think,and KNEW its true purpose as a magic wand,would not its power only be greater and more focused?.

                     as a side note to al my early morning ramblings (trust me folks,i do know i go on),as a kid i was told one of my not so distant ancesters was a plantation owner in the southern usa who married one of his slaves.being well off financially,he returned to canada,bride at his side,and lived out his remaining days happily raising a family with her.in his old age,he was rumoured to have been operating a safehouse for the underground railway,building false bottomed cabinets and filling coffins with sandbags to be used for transporting fragile cargo. 

            i like to believe (in my own flakey way),that my (seemingly) strong link with papa legba stems from this family connection,but i'ld be interested to know if anyone else thinks its valid.

__THE_HERMIT__

"make no difference between one thing and any other.."

slaves, masters etc etc all these are just words they only mean what we want them to mean, the only thing I see here is if it is a situation when one individual's personal development is dependent on someone else's then it is equally limited by that person's own development, that is if that is the case. on another note I am curious about this Papa Legba entity which you mention and your relation to it, from my direct knowledge i can see that it is some derivative of a "Yoruba" word so i assume this relates to voodoo. would you care to eloborate?

izzy_suicide

actually,i'm dead curious to see what others know about voodoo (i call it voodoo because i'm still in the early stages of learning)..to explain things properly,i'ld always been completely in love with the concept of voodoo since seeing the serpent and the rainbow as a kid..(way too young actually....like....growing up i tried to find more out about it,but the only books i could find were fiction,so as the years went on i guess i forgot all about it untill two years ago.

         at this point life was a bit much to handle if i'm honest,the same old boring story about need money everyone at some point has.i also had experienced some personal events that needed time to settle in my head,and above all else...had decided months before that god,was in fact....a right horribly cruel bastard overall.i mean,i spent half my life praying in the name of jesus,and got buggerthebugger all in return but feeling like crap.it was high time for a beer and re-assesment,if anyone can relate.

  with no money i wandered in a charity shop to kill time and spotted the book that in all honesty,changed my life. &quot;urban voodoo&quot; by the man himself...dr.christopher s hyatt with jason s.black.i spent the milk money on it and headed home,where in the next two days i read every word,and started from scratch again.

    actually,i spent the rest of the summer reading it over and over,page for page.things that stood out were making so much sense it almost was like i'ld already known it.

....also,as a sidenote,ive always been into the history of rock n roll,and had been listening to robert johnson quite a lot,leadbelly,nick drake.....i noticed they all used these references to black dogs(then i remembered zeppelin....)...the constant thought of being hounded......i went to th door...said hello satan.....its time to go...

now heres where it really gets a bit lame sounding.anyone here seen the film crossroads?....where steve vai and the katatekid cut heads betting soul for soul?....it happened to be on one late night when my pixie had fallen asleep in her chair.....the name legba circled my head for days.....i refered to my book,which spoke of an experience where "eshu" contacted dr.hyatt...

folks....i let an embarrasing brown spot in the arse of my jeans......spiritually.....
i had to know if i could really be feeling like something anted to make contact,but with no real clue except dr.hyatts good word,i drew a crude rendering of papa legba's veve.....stood it in my kitchen.....smoked a big fat joint and stared at it for at least 20 minutes.

i dont expect anyone to believe what i'm saying,but after while,i could clearly see the veve become a shadowy moving figure of a man walking from a great distance toward me.as he got closer,i could make out the details of his very finely cut hat,a simple black walking stick.....a string tie.......what held me from screaming in absolute terror was the fact that this approaching figure never once lost his charming toothy smile..and the overall feel of the room was almost like being at a really great party with old friends....where youre more comfortable than drunk....during this entire meeting...the only clear message i got was "black coffee...."

the next night i made a cup of black coffee and sat it in frnt of the veve,left the room for a few moments,and upon return,saw the coffee had gone down in the mug a considerable amount.

i'm running short of time,but that incident happened about 2 years ago,since then ive been studying dr.hyaatts "pacts with thedevil"...along with things ive found online.as yet,ive still not found any other source for voodoo.

i still speak with the spirit i call papa legba very frequently.although the bond hasnt gotten loads stronger,i've always felt we're connected very well dispite that.

let me know what you think,and i again state.i dont expect anyone to believe my take on these things,and outside opinions are exactly what i hope for so i can learn as much as possible.

__THE_HERMIT__

voodoo is very real in its effects! I've spent a lot of time in Nigeria and have been fortunate(or unfortunate) to witness it firsthand. There is an altogether different feel over there, especially away from the towns and big cities closer to the forests; a higher energy level, the intensity is almost tangible sometimes! there seem to be spirits everywhere! both the entities which you mention seem to be from the "Yoruba" pantheon; Eshu is "the trickster"(usually translated devil), there are others like "Shango"(god of thunder), Ogun(god of war/iron) Shopona(god of chicken pox) and Ifa who is more mathematical, his divination system is similar to the i-ching. As for Papa L'egba who is unknown to me I would assume he is a lesser spirit maybe a derivative probably more popular amongst diaspora in south America or the Islands, egba can be translated "stick" and papa is pretty much synonymous with the obvious meaning; so Papa L'egba could simply mean "old man with the stick"(I speak Yoruba quite fluently) i'm not sure he would be considered a god though. of all the above i am most curious about "Ifa" and his system of divination otherwise i am not particular attracted to voodoo at this point in time. however i could suggest particular areas where the spirits seem particularly active and where you would probably find "Baba Alawo's" who are particularly powerful if that is the type of research you are into, i have friends who are royalty over there, and the royalty over there is especially entrenched in the most powerful voodoo. I would propose that the voodoo at source is more authentic and powerful than in the diaspora.

izzy_suicide

what i'ld give to walk in the actual land where "voodoo" is a living breathing practise!..as i said before,where i'm a beginner i seem to take the longest road to the easiest point every time i try to look further into the matter,so i've been more or less following dr.hyatts books and what papa legba seems to tell me himself.

i get the impression,though i may be very wrong,that the legba i know is a part of a large family of spirits,i suppose each one has thier own crossroad to guard,i also believe that he's trying to push me toward santeria-style practice,but i havnt found the way yet to explain to him 1) i'm a white boy trying to get my head around some very new subjects and 2)i dont know the first damn thing about santeria.the "devil" connection though speaks volumes to me personally,because legba to me seems very much a lucifer-esque charactor.boldly talented,artistic,knowledgable,and maybe a bit of a rabble rouser when pushed into service.

i've had several experiences with him as a guide,but,sometimes the old boy isnt in a taking mood lol.

now shango is another spirit that seemed to come after papa legba first made contact,and he usually only appears when my pixie is baking or cooking a meal,so she had the brilliance to make a plate for him in the arly stages of our research and the result afterward was a feeling of calm contentment which ran through our home for weeks afterward.

thus far,i havnt really asked these spirits for anything,though i make small offerings out of respect and gratitude for the contact they make.but we made a small mistake of leaving chocolate as an offering in our hallway(which is a weird spot,it opens into two distinct crossroad pathways to get into rooms...so theres always 4 directions you can turn)....i think the chocolate made something VERY hyper,as lights would turn off and on,books fell from shelves,and at one point the bulb in the hallway itself exploded glass into my face with such force i almost fell,but wasnt cut,scratched or harmed in any way...could that be the trickster comming out of the papa legba spirit?

pixie_pseuicide

papa Legba as i know it is of the Elegula (Sp) family... one representitive of it so to speak...

I have to say after Master telling me about this post that he forgot our "welcoming" by the eshu! We worked out verbally about 5 weeks into having our second child and first son... Master was relating it to me like the eshu were pranksters... thier humour of a mischeif maker but with different reasons... i dont remmber the coversation entirely now but i remember just as it "clicked" and i felt my eyes water (weird thing i do i guess) i looked down and we both watched him smile for the very first time.. we looked at eachother then back to him and

POP!

all the lights blew out of the house and we had to go scrambling for torches and candles giggles.. i got the very strong impression that THEY... the ESHU.. had seen it happen too, and as we was talking of them, they wanted to make sure WE knew lol...

smiles... i'm not scared of the voodoo dieties gods and spirits that we've come across (although at first when Master started showing signs of falling for voodoo (much like a romance lol...) i realised i'd better get some understanding quickly!!

I personally fell into Erzulies open arms grins she's given me a lot of support over hard times, and most of my jewely and make up i've ended up giving in offering to her along with milky sweet tea and drawings lol...even my engagement ring..

These "spirits" whichever anybody wants to call them, CARE... and they dont leave your questions unanswered for very long....smiles... i'm personally picking up a lot of IFRA lately....