Bdsm, Magick, and a tantric theory??(not sure)

[Corvinae]

I really have to say something more here, about this thread. I wouldnt be true to myself if I didnt. I thought I could just let it go, but as I lay in bed my mind was on fire and I have to get this off my chest. So here it goes....

I dont even know how to spit this all out, and I think I may show a side of my character that doesnt get out much.

Part of my work here on this plane has been with women and children who are in severe distress, who are involved in domestic violence, abuse, addiction, forced prostitiution and a host of other wonderful aspect of society. I help them as best I can, for free, becuase I personally know what it is like to be on the recieving end and what a blessing (and life changing event) it can be to have a helping hand.

For me, the teachings of My Beloved AC empowered me to change my life to make it what I willed it to be. For me the teachings of Thelema are about MY will, my power, my love, my life as well as the Source of Me, and all of everything else. For me it is complete and utter bullsh*t to read (or hear) about how another human beings love of me (or you, or whatever) is what makes the world go round. I offer no applogies when I say that while I love my husband, and my lids, and my family I truely could give a rats Arse if they loved me back.

When I hear a sister say that they are not worhty, that they could not get better, that they are lucky to have, blah blah blah....it makes me want to scream. I am so fed up with this crappy status quo, and society that seems to dictate that not only that there are slaves.....but that women are slaves.

What the Fu&*! There are hundreds of thousands of woman and children who are literally, physically captives, slaves, IN REAL LIFE!!! all over the world. Right in your neighborhood, there are brothels where a man can pay a price to do ANYTHING he wants to another human being....(OK so a lady could pay too, but 99.99999% of clients are males) and you want me to come to this fantastic board that the most honorable Mr. Eshelman has created to teach us about personal will, and love and tell about your GAME of slave and master, and how this is really making you a better person, and that your beautiful children will not be harmed, or effected, and that the love you have is so beautiful.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

Dont waste your breathe explaining the high magick, the whole nine yards, I know from personal expierence what it is all about and it is utter bull.

Kinky sex is one thing, and I have no problem with people playing around, and having fun and expiermenting.....I do have a problem listeing to a lady talk about her Master, and what a great guy and father he is (which I am sure he is, but I dont need the preface.....)

I have been busting my ass to get rid of this slave mentality for all my brothers and sister it is a dead horse, old aeon, and I guess it just irks the hell out of me to see people think it is game and willinging put the shackels on and give there power away.

All my life I have had boys, guys, men, tell me that I was too good for them, that I was too beautiful too smart, too funny, the whole package.....all a bunch of bull to allow them to not be all they could be, for if they were with a woman like me they would have to step up and be a man, and take responisblity, and take charege and work and be and change......I spent more nights at home then all my "ugly stupid" girlfriends......it is a cop out to say that you are not an equal to anyone.

I will not bow down, or have any bow before me. I dont care who it is, and neither should you. If I knew of anyone who had kids, who acted like you are talking....I would have no problem calling child protective services, I have many friends thier.

Now to be gentle I understand that the internet allows freedoms that may not be truths, and I can appreciate pushing the envelope so to speak. But while so many of my Sisters (and Little ones ) are sold, and hurt, and raped, and killed DAILY I will not sit back and quietly listen to this tripe.

[pixie_pseuicide]

Veronica lol... "why" a woman thinks.. ill look into it but that tickled me a bit lolol

"I can relate to some of what you say, or at least I can understand the perspective of the practice. As a person who grewy up in a violent, drug and alcholic family-whoes members pretty much all had severe levels of disfunction.....I see deep parrallels with the bdsm community.

But in my situation the players were in denial, where as it appears in the bdsm it is in the open. Now I seemed to have saved myself from the paths of addiction and slavery.....but then again as I ponder it I wonder if I am just fooling myself...."

Yes there's definately a level of disfunction on both sides...but who is completely in tact when they reach adulthood, lol?

In the BDSM community (i think a lot of the attitude towards it is pompos and hokey and completely self deficating a point lol) everyones a little pyscho...most subs/slaves have been in abusive relationships.. (a right of passage i'm afraid before you realise that BDSM exists and some "rules" have been set up for SSC (Safe Sane Consensual) you have to learn to differenciate between dominANT and dominEERING pretty quickly... theres allways an asshole lurkin who thinks he is a big shot, or a vest somewhere that thinks he's the Master of Masters and acts acordinly..he aint focused on you baby lol...

Sadism and Masochism arent always there with Bondage and Dominance and vise versa... i consider myself both sadistic and masochistic (why its safer to be a submissive LOL...i think i'd get too into it lol...) yet Top+Bottom culture leads a different circle for the most part.

When im very upset or frustrated or feeling down, i could ask my Master to flog me -which beleive it or not is very nice and sends you into a bit of a trance- i know that it would make me feel insanely better and comforted at the same time... i havnt actually done this before for that reason (i dont recall..he may say otherwise lol) but i remember the moment i realised i could...this seemed like a bonus to having a master lol.. i'm not self destructive or a "cutter" or anything like that the effects would increase my endorphins and make me feel immediately better.... so i see why so many people flock to bdsm for the reason of it helping them over a personal seperate emotional "hiccup" lol.. (i have however asked him to do it after having had sex and not being able to float back down yet... submissive go into what the bdsm world call "subspace" .. its completely disoriantating and you speak all manner of jibberish sometimes...like after you've just been woken up and have been dreaming... i dont know if it did the trick, getting slapped on the ass over and over (it felt good reguardless lmao) or if i had to force myself to carry on like normal because i didnt want to ask him for something else too when we're both desperate to get in a tea coffee and smoke lol.. who knows..

"The one thing though for me is that I know each moment of each day I have two choices, I can do things that are right and help others, or I can do things that are selfish and serve only me. "

In the context of a slave, (or anyone who really loves thier partner and is simply consequtively considerate) the "good dead" is in the amount of attention you put into it... the extra effort of "offering" to make the next drinks before its comes to him "telling" me to make it and reminding me of my place (slightly irritating, girls, i gotta tell ya lol...this used to be where i'd stumbled or disobeyed the most, i'd argue or moan a lot of the time lol...) i'm giving him instant gratification, (also on another path, I am translating his will into manifestation, thus getting the ball rolling on anything Magickal he's working on) i am also using this time to show how much i love him... its fun to spend our time expressing this, we are very close as you can probably tell. When he tells me to go and make our bed before we retire for the night, i have the whole time to think about how far i've come in my initial goal slavery...how i'm checking off my own fantasies that i've brought to life through my Master and my openess to him.. giving him access to the dirty thoughts you think of when you're younger but still kinda do it for you... (because these tend to lend themselves towards our research links, it gets very exciting lol)

Why it isnt selfish is because my level of "pampering" him, he returns by "pampering" me - which he did and does even when this isnt on our minds for whatever reasons no matter how rare- and he pulls his weight in the chores in the house etc, he isnt being completely selfish either- but the difference between being pampered for no reason (which is lovely in itself) and being pampered in recognition of my effort and enthusism and going the extra mile to keep his life smoother.... now THAT feels amazing, and i can REALLY enjoy it and savour it.. i'm current going through this now, i had a dentist appointment yesterday and i was very brave had a tooth taken and one filled (my mother had munchausens by proxy, i have a huge fear of putting myself in these medical situations) and i'd never had any work on my teeth before.. i was brave gotthe injections and forced myself to stay calm and let them do it... Master recognised the effort i went to to do this and also knew exactly how to comfort me because he knows how my body deals with what anxieties and discomfort and pain exactly... i knew he was right there in my head with me.... he's pampered me silly since and has been telling me how proud he is of me lol..

i aint that fragile or anything lol, but i had a tough upbringing (like most people) actually thinking of cashing in and writing a book on it lol.. i'm a strong person before this...i'm a stronger person during this...and ill be a stronger person yet by the time i'm even a year ahead.

"while it appears that bdsm (esp. the slave role) is not selfish, apearances are not always the truth. While I will the first to say that some jack Arses need a swift hit upside the head with the reality stick, that it is much differnt hurt then being choked, or burned, or what ever."

i agree... most people just like to feel up themselves lol.. i know a lot of idiots who are given far too much admiration in certain bdsm circles i know off...its so overblown and pompus its sickening sometimes...lol..

"I personally do not like being caged, and forced to do things against my will. But I know that natures abundance is diverse, and what a shame if we were all alike:)"

lol i'm claustrophobic in ever other other setting.... but then i've been waiting a long time thinking about how restraints would feel from a sexual side. sometimes it still messes with me but i just keep going.. i know if i got really bad Master would hurry and get me loose.

One misconception is that those who follow BDSM or similar paths is that its non consensual... everything is consensual and the amount of freedoms placed on a slave is frustrating to one trying to loose them and forget they were ever there lol.. (lots of people get off on the idea of forced to do it, so they have no responcability for the experience and therefore dont have to admit it...my old saying you have to admit before you can submit.. no point trying before that point lol.

Most couples have "contracts" of what they dont want, boundarys that arent to be crossed in anyway. Submissives are different from Slaves... a submissive has teh right to say no and reserve things...a slave doesnt ... yet the funny thing is, like myself.. i couldnt express myself that way, OR acheive what i wanted to in my character development incorporate with those options there. Safewords are common place.

i love how wacky everyone is in this little world lol.. i dont seem quite extravagently insane next to certain types of people haha...

sorry if i've been long winded!!

[pixie_pseuicide]

Thats all very well and good dear but if i thought myself less than worthy i would have stayed single, and secondly that would be an extremely sad existance.

what i do, and what i beleive, has no cause or effect and is no reinactment of the horrible treatment people receive on this plannet, i think you'd agree thats a pretty insane idea that it is directly related.

Also i suggest maybe reading up on D/s and seeing past a lot of the misconception (or if not then you'll just have to take or refuse my word there is nothing abusive about a SSC relationship)

My children see no different elements to thier parents than of anybody elses in love. i dont go around in slave harness in broad daylight with a ballgag in walking in very uncomfortable looking ballet shoes with a plug up my ass and a carrot between fingers, LOL . its our sex life. its seperate, and in the bedroom. When it isnt seperate and in teh bedroom, is when the children arent around and we are researching Magick and Sex Magick , religions, theories, practises, cultures, histories, relations,astrology,astromony,tarot,divination etc. We research our things and practise Magick whilst still developing our theories on other subjects- OFTEN directly enlightened in the process. Its the Sex Energy it gives off can be used and batered.

I'm sorry you're saddened by your perception of BDSM. you needent be, that isnt what it is.

[pixie_pseuicide]

Also your concept of "escaping" slavery implies you already had yourself convinced everybody goes through this phase? It's simply one path of getting from A to B, there are MANY alternatives.

The reason i FOUND this board to begin with was because Thelema includes BDSM rituals in thier ceromonies, so if anything i'm a glowing representation of those in my line.

Feminism doesnt come into what i do (although its portrayed by mistress's porn videos, you hardly ever see a bdsm porn with a male dominant and female slave... and btw...there are plenty male slaves too, just as there are legitimate female domme's too (not that i can personally understand that route to explain. esp in terms of Magick) The possessing is in the owning is in the right to give sacrifice. and it was all my own idea that his just happened to match.

another time old beaten cliche in the bdsm circles is "a slave is not a doormat" . truely i suggest if it keeps you awake at night in fury, looking a little up about it. i can suggest some links if you're interested.

[pixie_pseuicide]

it also directly relates to Goddess Worship also, which is all about empowering women.

[izzy_suicide]

sometimes i read a thing,or hear a thing,somebody says,online or real life,and ponder how exactly people can bare wallowing in the drifting nothingness of pity and remorse.Others swim untill breathless on thier own pleasure and surf like some beautifull speed freak into the same greyness.

      truth is never in things,but between them



    Now,to be clear,i am fully aware how people all over the world are victimised and used and bought and sold and blahblahblah,long story short,everybodys had a crap life,no matter what way folks want to measure it.Doesnt matter if youre an 8 year old girl threading rusted needles to sew primark t-shirts in some god forsaken sweatshop,the fat kid at school who everyone beat the head off of,the wife of the drunkard with the temper,or the crackhead looking for a coke can in a backalley,one way or another friends,everyone has a cross to bear just like little weeping jesus,and somehow,in his footsteps(on a beach where i found myelf alone cuz god said..."youre too heavy,bugger off kid")...to lure others into feeding that sense of pity,remorse,shame and pain.This was the joke played on us all by birthright,we are born to suffer.

  i believe this to be true because of my own upbringing,which quite honestly,would make a made for tv movie script and turn stomachs nationwide.

 see folks,i've hung with the whores,junkies,punks,skinheads,rastas,broken hearted and super elated.i enjoy the company of each for its own reasons,but i never wallowed in pity in my life.we're ABOVE that folks.you and me both kid,make no mistake,are gods of some great design.and everyone knows,all great myths have tragedy.

however,these atrocities and sins have no bearing on the mind of one who understands true liberation.we can never be free,but we can FEEL free,by any means necessary.its up to everyone to choose what path opens the gates,and isnt for anyone else to decide for us.That was the worm inside the serpents apple and the whisper in eves ear.it doesnt matter whats been done,its what we CAN do that counts.

for me and mine,bdsm opens the gate papa legba first showed me when i started to learn,down a path to the crossroads where many have sat and waited for the man to come.i've seen him multiple times now,and believe it or not,all he's ever asked for is a mug of black coffee and some tobacco.

not an image in my head folks...not an apparation or vision....physical manifestation.and i've only been practising for two years. GONZO thelema-chaos-santeria combinations have worked for me very well,and i recommend anyone to try them without fear,the demons be friendly,they just dont take a very good picture most times....

my question after all this long winded rambling is,if one cannot seperate the self from the higher self,why bother?.i usually find that people who bleed for the pain of others tend to complain about results in thier own path.maybe we're meant to be selfish and more than a little pretentious?....if you think about it,crowley was the first rock star,perhaps jesus before him,soloman before that...NONE of these people had YOUR interests in mind when they performed thier miricles.are we meant to follow suit?

[Avshalom Binyamin]

There is nothing wrong with BDSM.

We're all acting out the contents of our mind in our relationships with others, whether we're aware of it or not. At least BDSM has a formality to it that can assist in creating the trust that enables the partners to really act out their anima/animus roles with gusto.

We just try to remind ourselves that this is the goal

"i personally aspire to shed every morsal of embarrasment and shame (in one sense) to be confident enough to have all my different persona's and sides meet inside the same body.. not as seperate identities, but as a whole"

And we try to remember that, if we're doing BDSM right, that it should result in personal growth. Subs will learn to internalize/integrate some of the traits of doms, being able to be more assertive. Doms will learn to be more intuitive and nurturing. BDSM play should evolve to reflect this increasing sophistication over time.

[TheSilent1]

@AvshalomBinyamin said

"There is nothing wrong with BDSM.

We're all acting out the contents of our mind in our relationships with others, whether we're aware of it or not. At least BDSM has a formality to it that can make assist in creating the trust that enables the partners to really act out their anima/animus roles with gusto.

We just try to remind ourselves that this is the goal

"i personally aspire to shed every morsal of embarrasment and shame (in one sense) to be confident enough to have all my different persona's and sides meet inside the same body.. not as seperate identities, but as a whole"

And we try to remember that, if we're doing BDSM right, that it should result in personal growth. Subs will learn to internalize/integrate some of the traits of doms, being able to be more assertive. Doms will learn to be more intuitive and nurturing. BDSM play should evolve to reflect this increasing sophistication over time."

Took the words right off of my keyboard!

[pixie_pseuicide]

Yeah he puts it well doesnt he grins

[Poet]

There is a fine line between minding where someone else chooses to stick their wick so to speak and proclaiming freedom solely through another's fiat.
Reminds me of the Malcolm X's distinctions about the Field and House negroes.

"If you're afraid of black nationalism, you're afraid of revolution. And if you love revolution, you love black nationalism. To understand this, you have to go back to what the young brother here referred to as the house Negro and the field Negro back during slavery. There were two kinds of slaves, the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes — they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good because they ate his food — what he left. They lived in the attic or the basement, but still they lived near the master; and they loved the master more than the master loved himself. They would give their life to save the master's house — quicker than the master would. If the master said, "We got a good house here," the house Negro would say, "Yeah, we got a good house here." Whenever the master said "we," he said "we." That's how you can tell a house Negro.

If the master's house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master, more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, "Let's run away, let's escape, let's separate," the house Negro would look at you and say, "Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a "house nigger." And that's what we call them today, because we've still got some house niggers running around here.

The field Negro was beaten from morning to night; he lived in a shack, in a hut; he wore old, castoff clothes. He hated his master. I say he hated his master. He was intelligent. That house Negro loved his master, but that field Negro — remember, they were in the majority, and they hated the master. When the house caught on fire, he didn't try to put it out; that field Negro prayed for a wind, for a breeze. When the master got sick, the field Negro prayed that he'd die. If someone came to the field Negro and said, "Let's separate, let's run," he didn't say, "Where we going?" He'd say, "Any place is better than here."

We all know what happened to Crowley's "Prized possessions"

[izzy_suicide]

poet,i enjoyed reading your post ,and its made my mind wander a bit about some things,so i'ld like to reply.before i begin though,i'ld like to say,what i post may offend some people,i understand that my point of view may not be for everyone,but make no bones,i'm no racist.

                     first,we by now all realize that the very word "slave" conjures images of horrors and suffering,of unlimited cruelty and the ugliness of mans true nature.

                     however,what strikes me as odd is,in thes modern times,and for all my 33 years of existance,the word "slave" is always attributed to a black person in most peoples eyes.the televised image of kunta kinte,stolen from his home and chained,beaten,crippled and in the end,owned even in his death seems to be the popular view on "that dark time in history"....i aint ashamed to admit it,i cried like a baby when fiddler died,it made me sick to be a white man.for a moment as i dried my eyes,i was almost ashamed to be called "master" by my pixie.

                     however,at some point or other,every race has given its share of slaves.we've just had the image of the bound black man forced upon us more and more in recent years,and i believe its been used as a sigil by someone with a much greater understanding of the spirits than i.

                     but can we truely dismiss the thought that without those periods in history (and argueably today),we'ld truely be better off now?....take a while and actually consider that idea....had no one ever taken a slave of ay kind....where would we be as humans RIGHT NOW.

                     i am a r/l master as i think most already are aware, in a tps relationship.its not a total power exchange,its total power surrender,which makes my next thought clearer.

                     the field slave did dispise thier masters,thats true,and the house slave played the role of "good nigger".the underlying difference between both and a bdsm slave is.....neither the field slave or the house slave had the choice to serve,and in that very statement rends any comparison completely useless.its not like comparing apples and oranges which will both only turn out to be fruit,its comparing styrofoam to jupiter.unrelated.this undisputable fact however does not and will not stop the link from being made in many peoples eyes that one must be the other.in my opinion,its in the ability to have made the choice to BE a slave,to submit,to suurender,to press onward through fear and hunger that makes bdsm a usable tool for magickal work.for lack of a better way of explaining a very complicated ramble,imagine if the magic wand could think,and KNEW its true purpose as a magic wand,would not its power only be greater and more focused?.

                     as a side note to al my early morning ramblings (trust me folks,i do know i go on),as a kid i was told one of my not so distant ancesters was a plantation owner in the southern usa who married one of his slaves.being well off financially,he returned to canada,bride at his side,and lived out his remaining days happily raising a family with her.in his old age,he was rumoured to have been operating a safehouse for the underground railway,building false bottomed cabinets and filling coffins with sandbags to be used for transporting fragile cargo. 

            i like to believe (in my own flakey way),that my (seemingly) strong link with papa legba stems from this family connection,but i'ld be interested to know if anyone else thinks its valid.

[__THE_HERMIT__]

"make no difference between one thing and any other.."

slaves, masters etc etc all these are just words they only mean what we want them to mean, the only thing I see here is if it is a situation when one individual's personal development is dependent on someone else's then it is equally limited by that person's own development, that is if that is the case. on another note I am curious about this Papa Legba entity which you mention and your relation to it, from my direct knowledge i can see that it is some derivative of a "Yoruba" word so i assume this relates to voodoo. would you care to eloborate?

[izzy_suicide]

actually,i'm dead curious to see what others know about voodoo (i call it voodoo because i'm still in the early stages of learning)..to explain things properly,i'ld always been completely in love with the concept of voodoo since seeing the serpent and the rainbow as a kid..(way too young actually....like....growing up i tried to find more out about it,but the only books i could find were fiction,so as the years went on i guess i forgot all about it untill two years ago.

         at this point life was a bit much to handle if i'm honest,the same old boring story about need money everyone at some point has.i also had experienced some personal events that needed time to settle in my head,and above all else...had decided months before that god,was in fact....a right horribly cruel bastard overall.i mean,i spent half my life praying in the name of jesus,and got buggerthebugger all in return but feeling like crap.it was high time for a beer and re-assesment,if anyone can relate.

  with no money i wandered in a charity shop to kill time and spotted the book that in all honesty,changed my life. "urban voodoo" by the man himself...dr.christopher s hyatt with jason s.black.i spent the milk money on it and headed home,where in the next two days i read every word,and started from scratch again.

    actually,i spent the rest of the summer reading it over and over,page for page.things that stood out were making so much sense it almost was like i'ld already known it.

....also,as a sidenote,ive always been into the history of rock n roll,and had been listening to robert johnson quite a lot,leadbelly,nick drake.....i noticed they all used these references to black dogs(then i remembered zeppelin....)...the constant thought of being hounded......i went to th door...said hello satan.....its time to go...

now heres where it really gets a bit lame sounding.anyone here seen the film crossroads?....where steve vai and the katatekid cut heads betting soul for soul?....it happened to be on one late night when my pixie had fallen asleep in her chair.....the name legba circled my head for days.....i refered to my book,which spoke of an experience where "eshu" contacted dr.hyatt...

folks....i let an embarrasing brown spot in the arse of my jeans......spiritually.....
i had to know if i could really be feeling like something anted to make contact,but with no real clue except dr.hyatts good word,i drew a crude rendering of papa legba's veve.....stood it in my kitchen.....smoked a big fat joint and stared at it for at least 20 minutes.

i dont expect anyone to believe what i'm saying,but after while,i could clearly see the veve become a shadowy moving figure of a man walking from a great distance toward me.as he got closer,i could make out the details of his very finely cut hat,a simple black walking stick.....a string tie.......what held me from screaming in absolute terror was the fact that this approaching figure never once lost his charming toothy smile..and the overall feel of the room was almost like being at a really great party with old friends....where youre more comfortable than drunk....during this entire meeting...the only clear message i got was "black coffee...."

the next night i made a cup of black coffee and sat it in frnt of the veve,left the room for a few moments,and upon return,saw the coffee had gone down in the mug a considerable amount.

i'm running short of time,but that incident happened about 2 years ago,since then ive been studying dr.hyaatts "pacts with thedevil"...along with things ive found online.as yet,ive still not found any other source for voodoo.

i still speak with the spirit i call papa legba very frequently.although the bond hasnt gotten loads stronger,i've always felt we're connected very well dispite that.

let me know what you think,and i again state.i dont expect anyone to believe my take on these things,and outside opinions are exactly what i hope for so i can learn as much as possible.

[__THE_HERMIT__]

voodoo is very real in its effects! I've spent a lot of time in Nigeria and have been fortunate(or unfortunate) to witness it firsthand. There is an altogether different feel over there, especially away from the towns and big cities closer to the forests; a higher energy level, the intensity is almost tangible sometimes! there seem to be spirits everywhere! both the entities which you mention seem to be from the "Yoruba" pantheon; Eshu is "the trickster"(usually translated devil), there are others like "Shango"(god of thunder), Ogun(god of war/iron) Shopona(god of chicken pox) and Ifa who is more mathematical, his divination system is similar to the i-ching. As for Papa L'egba who is unknown to me I would assume he is a lesser spirit maybe a derivative probably more popular amongst diaspora in south America or the Islands, egba can be translated "stick" and papa is pretty much synonymous with the obvious meaning; so Papa L'egba could simply mean "old man with the stick"(I speak Yoruba quite fluently) i'm not sure he would be considered a god though. of all the above i am most curious about "Ifa" and his system of divination otherwise i am not particular attracted to voodoo at this point in time. however i could suggest particular areas where the spirits seem particularly active and where you would probably find "Baba Alawo's" who are particularly powerful if that is the type of research you are into, i have friends who are royalty over there, and the royalty over there is especially entrenched in the most powerful voodoo. I would propose that the voodoo at source is more authentic and powerful than in the diaspora.

[izzy_suicide]

what i'ld give to walk in the actual land where "voodoo" is a living breathing practise!..as i said before,where i'm a beginner i seem to take the longest road to the easiest point every time i try to look further into the matter,so i've been more or less following dr.hyatts books and what papa legba seems to tell me himself.

i get the impression,though i may be very wrong,that the legba i know is a part of a large family of spirits,i suppose each one has thier own crossroad to guard,i also believe that he's trying to push me toward santeria-style practice,but i havnt found the way yet to explain to him 1) i'm a white boy trying to get my head around some very new subjects and 2)i dont know the first damn thing about santeria.the "devil" connection though speaks volumes to me personally,because legba to me seems very much a lucifer-esque charactor.boldly talented,artistic,knowledgable,and maybe a bit of a rabble rouser when pushed into service.

i've had several experiences with him as a guide,but,sometimes the old boy isnt in a taking mood lol.

now shango is another spirit that seemed to come after papa legba first made contact,and he usually only appears when my pixie is baking or cooking a meal,so she had the brilliance to make a plate for him in the arly stages of our research and the result afterward was a feeling of calm contentment which ran through our home for weeks afterward.

thus far,i havnt really asked these spirits for anything,though i make small offerings out of respect and gratitude for the contact they make.but we made a small mistake of leaving chocolate as an offering in our hallway(which is a weird spot,it opens into two distinct crossroad pathways to get into rooms...so theres always 4 directions you can turn)....i think the chocolate made something VERY hyper,as lights would turn off and on,books fell from shelves,and at one point the bulb in the hallway itself exploded glass into my face with such force i almost fell,but wasnt cut,scratched or harmed in any way...could that be the trickster comming out of the papa legba spirit?

[pixie_pseuicide]

papa Legba as i know it is of the Elegula (Sp) family... one representitive of it so to speak...

I have to say after Master telling me about this post that he forgot our "welcoming" by the eshu! We worked out verbally about 5 weeks into having our second child and first son... Master was relating it to me like the eshu were pranksters... thier humour of a mischeif maker but with different reasons... i dont remmber the coversation entirely now but i remember just as it "clicked" and i felt my eyes water (weird thing i do i guess) i looked down and we both watched him smile for the very first time.. we looked at eachother then back to him and

POP!

all the lights blew out of the house and we had to go scrambling for torches and candles giggles.. i got the very strong impression that THEY... the ESHU.. had seen it happen too, and as we was talking of them, they wanted to make sure WE knew lol...

smiles... i'm not scared of the voodoo dieties gods and spirits that we've come across (although at first when Master started showing signs of falling for voodoo (much like a romance lol...) i realised i'd better get some understanding quickly!!

I personally fell into Erzulies open arms grins she's given me a lot of support over hard times, and most of my jewely and make up i've ended up giving in offering to her along with milky sweet tea and drawings lol...even my engagement ring..

These "spirits" whichever anybody wants to call them, CARE... and they dont leave your questions unanswered for very long....smiles... i'm personally picking up a lot of IFRA lately....

[Labyrinthus]

@_aLL_seEIng_eYe_ said

"I would propose that the voodoo at source is more authentic and powerful than in the diaspora."

I was reading in the Deng Ming Dao trilogy about a Kung Fu monk who fled China when Mao was destroying the monasteries and came to San Francisco. He reported how certain rituals and incantations that worked very reliably for him in China did nothing at all in this new land.

[gurugeorge]

Hey Pixie, kept meaning to mention this but forgetting - but you are aware that AC did have a "BDSM" type relationship at one point in his life (with a German lady called Anny Ringler - she was a masochist who enjoyed being whipped)? But that's the only specific occasion I can recall where he was properly into that stuff. He did recommend at the very least that one be familiar with the "classic" literature (e.g. De Sade, Sacher-Masoch, some parts of the Kama Sutra, etc.).

I think he would have looked kindly on the BDSM scene as it is. I'm not hugely into it myself (except occasionally in fantasy), but it's good that people experiment and pursue their heart's desire (so long as it's all fundamentally consenting of course) and it sometimes amazes me how bold and outrageous people can be with their sexual proclivities. Hardly anybody is "normal" sexually

[Poet]

@izzy_suicide said

"poet,i enjoyed reading your post ,and its made my mind wander a bit about some things,so i'ld like to reply.before i begin though,i'ld like to say,what i post may offend some people,i understand that my point of view may not be for everyone,but make no bones,i'm no racist.

                     first,we by now all realize that the very word "slave" conjures images of horrors and suffering,of unlimited cruelty and the ugliness of mans true nature.

                     however,what strikes me as odd is,in thes modern times,and for all my 33 years of existance,the word "slave" is always attributed to a black person in most peoples eyes.the televised image of kunta kinte,stolen from his home and chained,beaten,crippled and in the end,owned even in his death seems to be the popular view on "that dark time in history"....i aint ashamed to admit it,i cried like a baby when fiddler died,it made me sick to be a white man.for a moment as i dried my eyes,i was almost ashamed to be called "master" by my pixie.

                     however,at some point or other,every race has given its share of slaves.we've just had the image of the bound black man forced upon us more and more in recent years,and i believe its been used as a sigil by someone with a much greater understanding of the spirits than i.

          "

Interesting point.
The Malcom X quote is obviously about the Black slave reality, because that was who his audience was. He had no interest (at least at the time of that quote) in engaging with White people in any way whatsoever.
But I can see you are right in some respect.
Though, obviously the Black slave trade was the worlds largest and most blatant sign of slavery at least in relatively modern times.
I think however that I might be tempted to think we prefer to connect the 2 ideas - Slavery and the Black man, because its easier than admitting our own slavery.
We are the collateral our governments borrow national debt against.
The majority of our taxes are paid straight to our financial owners against that debt.
Taxes and the modern Corporate-Welfare state are modern slavery, and most of us know it, but admitting our own slavery to ourselves is to admit our own weakness and submission to that slavery, and we know people aren't keen on that.
Much easier to point to the "other" slave than question it within ourselves.

@izzy_suicide said

"

                     but can we truely dismiss the thought that without those periods in history (and argueably today),we'ld truely be better off now?....take a while and actually consider that idea....had no one ever taken a slave of ay kind....where would we be as humans RIGHT NOW.

"

An endless argument pitting progress made in the material realm against wealth lost in the non-material.
Maybe we are better off with the latest Iphones and Celebrity Big Brother?
But have we not lost more in reducing the worlds rainforests from 14% of land mass to just 6% so far to achieve those great heights?
Time will have to tell on that one. Though the Easter Islanders may have something to teach us there.

@izzy_suicide said

"

                     the field slave did dispise thier masters,thats true,and the house slave played the role of "good nigger".the underlying difference between both and a bdsm slave is.....neither the field slave or the house slave had the choice to serve,and in that very statement rends any comparison completely useless.its not like comparing apples and oranges which will both only turn out to be fruit,its comparing styrofoam to jupiter."

I wasn't making the comparison on the basis of the concrete reality of the field/house slave condition to someone in a BDSM relationship, but more to the mentalities as expressed by Malcolm X.

The field slave sought freedom.
The house slave thought his version of slavery made him as free as he could be.
Just because he was unable to imagine any kind of freedom beyond his current situation, that alone did not make him free. Far from it.

[izzy_suicide]

believe it or not,i actually agree with you poet. i dispise this modern world of corperate vampirism,and if i were younger and without children,quite probably i would be attacking bnp rallies and burning down starbucks outlets.in fact....every time a starbucks or walmart/asda's opens..my heart bleeds for the people that just ended up unemployed and probably foolish enough to have the damned coffee and then shop inside the worlds biggest ripoff chain.we are all indeed slaves...and freedom is the myth they keep us trapped by.i dont want to start arguements,but nothing saddens me more than a proud mother of a soldier.it actually makes my stomach churn.

but there is magick at work to ensave us all,and the horrible bastards in charge are damned fine magicians.i have no shame in petitioning the spirits for money,as its sadly such a major part of everyones life.

though when i hear someone like jorden maxwell speak endlessly about how the politicians gain power from havng power,it makes sense to me that acting that role might have magnificant magickal rewards.the few rituals i've done my best to perform in bdsm style do seem to yeild quite heavy activity,though,i do admit..part of me just wanted at first to know for sure there ARE higher spirits than us humans.and now that i know for sure,i feel much better within myself,i searched christianity for this kind of personal contact for years,but jesus must have been busy when i prayed.lucifer however,always accepts my collect calls,and many others seem to at least nod in my direction,its a beautifull feeling.

i wonder,if all of us who feel mainly the same way about being trampled under corperate feet and crucified by the vatican,if we all stood together and made our petitions to the higher spirits,if the possibility to change things for the better would appear.i cant go out in punk rock style setting fires to political billboads anymore,but honestly,ive mulled over trying a little spell to hush david camerons communist agenda,though i havnt nearly the experience for that.nice fantasy though lol

i do also wonder if my aforementioned "image of the black man as slave" IS being used as a sigil,it definately blinds us to our own suffering in the here and now,what other draw might it have....its an image burned into many hearts and minds so it would hold great power.