LBRP Evocation and communication with the angels
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Heru, 93,
"I tried to invoke the four archangels with my eyes closed during the LBRP this evening, something I've never tried before, but found it even more difficult than with my eyes open! More frustration. Rolling Eyes
With my eyes open I have a spatial reference. I might not be able to see the angels, but I know where they are standing. But for some reason I find Raphael the most difficult and Gabriel the easiest. Crazy!"Years ago, I was also finding Gabriel easy to see (it's still so) and Raphael tougher. But my real problem was Mikhael - couldn't see anything, nor feel it. I thought I'd try to break through the presumed barrier by chanting Mikhael's name and attempting to visualise him while sitting facing into the South.
After about five minutes of chanting while feeling nothing, I decided abruptly to quit what I thought was a futile effort. Instantly, the glass lamp on my altar cracked, and very loudly so. I yelled "Jesus!" in shock, though I don't think that would qualify me for the Society of the Inner Light.
The Mikhael contact was there all the time, of course, but I wasn't consciously attuned to it. When I cut the circuit, the energy, like electricity, naturally grounded itself through the appropriate (Fire) object on the altar
I finally realised that I was refusing to acknowledge the qualitative difference with Mikhael. But the main thing I learned that night was not to take conscious impressions at face value in magick. If certain procedures are followed properly, certain things happen in consequence, whatever the outer mind, with its various anxieties and prejudices, thinks is happening.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Jim Eshelman said
"[For the part that follows, only the Earth Pentagram is used. However, it isn't drawn in Earth-related colors and isn't intended to invoke or banish the Element Earth. Instead, it is being used as a generic pentagram , not specialized in any particular way.]"
I've seen it written the reason why we use the Earth pentagram is because of the grounding nature of the ritual and with us living on Earth/Malkuth, it keeps out feet grounded while we do the ritual instead of invoking any unnecessary forces into the ritual. I think it was somewhere in Jerry Cornelius's writings that I saw this, so don't quote me on it, but it makes sense to me.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"When I was first learning the Pentagram Ritual, I took several weeks and began each practice session sitting facing each quarter in turn, and visualizing the archangels facing them, one at a time."
Thank you for sharing this Jim. I'm sure it will be very helpful. It seems so simple and obvious, but solutions are always that way.
@Jim Eshelman said
"You can also try something simpler at first, such as seeing them only as columns of brilliant light or flame in the corresponding colors, and not get anything anthropomorphic about them."
I am pretty sure this will be useful to me too. I came across this technique in a Donald Tyson book quite a few years ago but never really thought about it until now. When I first saw it I thought it was too simplistic. But that was the point of view of an arm chair magician.
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@Edward Mason said
"I finally realised that I was refusing to acknowledge the qualitative difference with Mikhael. But the main thing I learned that night was not to take conscious impressions at face value in magick. If certain procedures are followed properly, certain things happen in consequence, whatever the outer mind, with its various anxieties and prejudices, thinks is happening."
When I practice the LBRP the quarters I have the greatest response from are Water and Fire. Personally I find this quite odd. If I had to describe myself I would say I was a rational and down to earth Capricorn. Then why don't I connect with Air and Earth so well in the LBRP ? Is the mechanism of the ritual highlighting my character flaws / deficiencies? I certainly think so. When I really began to connect to the feeling of the archangels I found it very puzzling why Gabriel should be so strong when my natural inclination is toward Raphael/Air.
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@kuniggety said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"[For the part that follows, only the Earth Pentagram is used. However, it isn't drawn in Earth-related colors and isn't intended to invoke or banish the Element Earth. Instead, it is being used as a generic pentagram , not specialized in any particular way.]"I've seen it written the reason why we use the Earth pentagram is because of the grounding nature of the ritual and with us living on Earth/Malkuth, it keeps out feet grounded while we do the ritual instead of invoking any unnecessary forces into the ritual."
Yes, that explanation (or something similar) has been given. I think it is a sound explanation for why the Earth form of Pentagram is a suitable generic.
But the intention is very different when you are trying to invoke or banish energies specifically of the Element Earth vs. when you are doing a generic (non-specific) invoking or banishing. One of the ways to queue this to the psyche is to be sure not to use Earth colors, but to use the generic "astral witchfire" pale electric blue. You also need to understand the difference, to have the right intention in your mind.
I remember a student years ago who started working with the Pentagram ritual and, over the next six months, had all the practical affairs of his life disintegrate. He lost the ability to actually handle practical affairs. One day he said, "Hey, I just realized I've been banishing Earth for the last six months. No wonder!" I was taken quite off guard and told him, "Oh no, you aren't actually banishing Earth, are you? Your just doing the general Lesser Banishing Ritual that uses the Earth-shaped pentagram, but not with the idea of banishing Earth per se, right?" Turns out that, no, he quite specifically thougjht he was banishing Earth, and he got a real lesson from it.
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Heru, 93
"If I had to describe myself I would say I was a rational and down to earth Capricorn. Then why don't I connect with Air and Earth so well in the LBRP ? Is the mechanism of the ritual highlighting my character flaws / deficiencies? I certainly think so. When I really began to connect to the feeling of the archangels I found it very puzzling why Gabriel should be so strong when my natural inclination is toward Raphael/Air."
An off-the-top guess: I'm very much an Air person, which means, if we use something like the Jungian concept of the four functions, that Fire would be something I had more in subconsciousness. So, it was (and is) a potent element/energy for me.
Mayeb the element that is least real or complete or present for us on a conscious level is what comes through when we start to suspend the conscious, critical faculties, as in an LBRP? After all, the LBRP is a ritual of equilibration.
93 93/93,
Edward
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@Jim Eshelman said
"BTW, and I hate making too many predictions of things too far ahead, but in the last year there have been some very solid nibbles that would have us jumping the pod - but not into your area directly. There is a very good liklihood that Aspirants to Light will be opening a lodge in Scandinavia over the next year, and I've been assured that there is a very large block of hard-working people in one Eastern European area very interested in Temple of Thelema. If these leads develop, it would be over the next few years and, once there is a toe-hold on the continent, it makes it easier to make other things happen. But at the moment this is in the little-more-than-daydream stage, and there never has been a significant uprising of interest in us expressed from England. So don't hold your breath and turn blue
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Which part of Eastern Europe? Let's we say that I a little know situation in some parts, in my to be more precise. Too much gossips and dirty works here. One other Order is just in process of Establishing the Logde in the south of Europe. Not so easy business. I am administrator of our local hermetic forum, and I can see various social games between people who try "eliminate" other people and take some leading possitions in this Order . Also, two times one Thelemic Order from USA tried to establish Temples here. Both times unsucesfully. Too much great promisses, too much pompeous announcing here, several Temples but without at least one ritual performed. Be very carefull with people from some parts of Eastern Europe. We aren't so good people sometimes
Of course, there are a lot of great people also. But history of occult orders is not so great here. There are good examples and there are bad ones. In this sense just be carefull, if it is not unpolite to give such kind of advices to you. If it is I apologise.Love is the law, love under will
B.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But the intention is very different when you are trying to invoke or banish energies specifically of the Element Earth vs. when you are doing a generic (non-specific) invoking or banishing. One of the ways to queue this to the psyche is to be sure not to use Earth colors, but to use the generic "astral witchfire" pale electric blue. You also need to understand the difference, to have the right intention in your mind.
I remember a student years ago who started working with the Pentagram ritual and, over the next six months, had all the practical affairs of his life disintegrate. He lost the ability to actually handle practical affairs. One day he said, "Hey, I just realized I've been banishing Earth for the last six months. No wonder!" I was taken quite off guard and told him, "Oh no, you aren't actually banishing Earth, are you? Your just doing the general Lesser Banishing Ritual that uses the Earth-shaped pentagram, but not with the idea of banishing Earth per se, right?" Turns out that, no, he quite specifically thougjht he was banishing Earth, and he got a real lesson from it."
While I personally know the difference, I just wanted to note how you're such an eloquent writer. I trip over myself trying to describe things.
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@HPK said
"Which part of Eastern Europe?"
From your post, I'm sure you understand why I'm not giving details right now. It's too soon, and I had suspected some of the problems you mentioned.
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@kuniggety said
"While I personally know the difference, I just wanted to note how you're such an eloquent writer. I trip over myself trying to describe things."
Thanks <!-- s:L) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smile-l.gif" alt=":L)" title="Smile-L" /><!-- s:L) -->
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Hi,
not to distract the thread from present course, but, Jim, do you know anywhere else I would be able to find those 7steps you were talking about?I do not fit into the entrance requirements for B.O.T.A.
Thank you,
Kenneth -
@Techpries said
"not to distract the thread from present course, but, Jim, do you know anywhere else I would be able to find those 7steps you were talking about?
I do not fit into the entrance requirements for B.O.T.A."
Though there are illegal copies floating around that can be found, I can't ethically recommend those and haven't kept track of where they might be.
What entrance requirements don't you meet (if I might ask)? I can only think of age as one - since you're on the forum, you've indicated you're at 13 - are you perhaps under 18?
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I am 19, on their website they list their age requirement as 21.
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@Techpries said
"I am 19, on their website they list their age requirement as 21."
They're not going to ask for your birth certificate. If I were you, I'd simply send them a check and await delivery
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"I remember a student years ago who started working with the Pentagram ritual and, over the next six months, had all the practical affairs of his life disintegrate. He lost the ability to actually handle practical affairs. One day he said, "Hey, I just realized I've been banishing Earth for the last six months. No wonder!" I was taken quite off guard and told him, "Oh no, you aren't actually banishing Earth, are you? Your just doing the general Lesser Banishing Ritual that uses the Earth-shaped pentagram, but not with the idea of banishing Earth per se, right?" Turns out that, no, he quite specifically thougjht he was banishing Earth, and he got a real lesson from it."
I've been doing the LBRP for about almost 2 months now, and a few weeks ago, I said the same thing, THATS why I change my pentagram ritual, to banish each element according to the direction and the archangel.
If i visualize my archangels before i do the LBRP, there might be more result.
I need some personal instruction, I wish I could meet some fellow thelemites that would take the time to show me, sometimes my oasis in oto doesnt want to show me things, out in california and oregon they are willing to show me all I want to know. over east, where I live, they act like some .. well you know.what do you guys think about these comments
the standard LBRP is not banishing earth, it's a general banishing.neat..
Kingsolomon -
Jim, your posts here have been pure gold for me. Pun intended.
Another question along these lines for you, and anyone else, if you don't mind:
I've been practicing the Zelator Meditation of the Golden Dawn for about four months now. I'm noticing more and more often the visualization 'seeds' leading me down unexpected pathways. However, I seem to strafe a fine line between conscious visualization/meditation and subconscious sleep. Dipping in and out of the waters, so to speak. Is there a way to prevent this or is this the effect I should be looking for? If it is, is there a way for me to better remain conscious, and thus remember what I see when I exit the meditation?
Any help, advice you have along these lines would be great. As expressed recently in another thread, I too am having difficulty finding a satisfactory initiatory body near me. I've been diligent in my spiritual disciplines for years now, and the words of advice on the LBRP given earlier unlocked a doorway I've been patiently waiting on for years. I'm hoping for more fruit, difficult as it is to transmit through the written word.
Many, many, many thanks.
Humbly,
Jeff
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"A couple of other problems: By using IAO instead of Amen, you throw off an important gematria correspondence, though (for you) that maty be outweighed by other considerations. Also, and of considerable importance, you appear to still be using the blind AGLA instead of the full sentence Attah Gibbor le-Olam Adonai."
Just currious, because this is not God's name, should we vibrate this or to pronounce this full sentence on some other way? Thanx in advance.
"You can't evoke an archangel unless you are operating at the Atziluthic (divine) level. That is, we evoke what is at a lower vibratory rate. It's fine to see them 10 feet tall if there's enough space in the room - in cathedrals and other great halls, I've seen them this size often. It's not that hard to have a conversation with them after considerable exposure - perhaps six months to a year of regular performance of the ritual on average, I'd estimate. Whether others see them, though, is entirely up to you."
Hm, aren't Archangels Briatic forms? Why then one who would be operating on Briatic levec couldn't evoke Archangels? I am sorry if this is stupid question, but I am really confused now. Also. I found on several places information about connection of Archangels with all 4 worlds. For example, that Uriel, for example, is Archangel of Assiah. That confuse me. That it means that Uriel is Archangel of Assiah of Briah?
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@HPK said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"A couple of other problems: By using IAO instead of Amen, you throw off an important gematria correspondence, though (for you) that maty be outweighed by other considerations. Also, and of considerable importance, you appear to still be using the blind AGLA instead of the full sentence Attah Gibbor le-Olam Adonai."Just currious, because this is not God's name, should we vibrate this or to pronounce this full sentence on some other way? Thanx in advance. "
Vibrate, yes.
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"You can't evoke an archangel unless you are operating at the Atziluthic (divine) level. That is, we evoke what is at a lower vibratory rate. It's fine to see them 10 feet tall if there's enough space in the room - in cathedrals and other great halls, I've seen them this size often. It's not that hard to have a conversation with them after considerable exposure - perhaps six months to a year of regular performance of the ritual on average, I'd estimate. Whether others see them, though, is entirely up to you."Hm, aren't Archangels Briatic forms? Why then one who would be operating on Briatic levec couldn't evoke Archangels?"
You e-voke something that is a subset of yourself. That is, it must be a component of a set of which you are a transcendant integration. (I've never put it that way before, but it's true.) To "call out" of yourself something Briatic, you have to be at a level superior to Briah.
"Also. I found on several places information about connection of Archangels with all 4 worlds. For example, that Uriel, for example, is Archangel of Assiah. That confuse me. That it means that Uriel is Archangel of Assiah of Briah?"
I suppose a given author is saying that anything relevant to Earth is correspondent to Assiah, etc. I think this is misleading at best.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"But the intention is very different when you are trying to invoke or banish energies specifically of the Element Earth vs. when you are doing a generic (non-specific) invoking or banishing."
Ok, so what exactly is being banished/invoked by the the use of the generic earth-like pentagram?
As I understand it the element Earth is not a real element per se, but an aggregate of Fire, Water, and Air. So if the generic earth-like pentagram doesn't cover this, what's left to banish or invoke with it?
My guess would be that the generic banishing pentagram disperses negative influences, and the generic invoking pentagram attracts positive influences. Correct?
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The general banishing banishes ALL, instead of specifically one element. In this respect, you're doing one banishing instead of four different ones for each element.