LBRP
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@jmiller said
"So perhaps there is no need to try to explain how, for example, both Hod and Earth could correspond to the North. Is there anything on the provenance or intent of the Note that I'm missing or misunderstanding?"
Her last (quoted) sentence simply refers to the fact that there are other rituals where one finds oneself at exactly the same juncture - the intersection of Samekh and Peh on the Tree.
BTW, it isn't "Hod and Earth... to the North." It's Hod to the South - hence Mikhael.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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Her last (quoted) sentence simply refers to the fact that there are other rituals where one finds oneself at exactly the same juncture - the intersection of Samekh and Peh on the Tree."But what about the earlier sentence when she refers to "this version" and says it's different than that used by the Golden Dawn?
@Jim Eshelman said
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BTW, it isn't "Hod and Earth... to the North." It's Hod to the South - hence Mikhael."From the "Notes":
You are facing Tiphareth (the Sun), thus on your right hand is Netzach (Venus), on your left hand Hod (Mercury), and behind you Yesod (the Moon).That should put Hod to the north, unless Tiphareth is in the west.
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@jmiller said
"But what about the earlier sentence when she refers to "this version" and says it's different than that used by the Golden Dawn?"
I think this is just word choice. I've always understood that passage (and Soror Meral o nthe subject in general) to mean, "Now, the way Crowley tells us to do this is different from the way the Golden Dawn taught it."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"BTW, it isn't "Hod and Earth... to the North." It's Hod to the South - hence Mikhael."From the "Notes":
You are facing Tiphareth (the Sun), thus on your right hand is Netzach (Venus), on your left hand Hod (Mercury), and behind you Yesod (the Moon)."I'm sure that's a typo in the original notes.
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After doing the Qabalistic Cross, the ritual (as instructed) states to turn to the East. What direction are you facing during the Cross? I always assumed East. Is this correct / most effective? Are the instructions to face East just redundant?
Also, what is the proper way to 'vibrate' the divine names? Judging by the description, no vocal sound is produced at all. Is the term vibration more referring to psychic / astral resonance? Or do you actually intone the names (since pronunciations are given)? If you intone, when? While you're drawing the pentagrams, or after (during the breathing)?
I get the impression that my LBRP could be more effective, and I am curious what others' experiences have been in this regard. I am by no means a master of this ritual.
Thank you for reading this post.
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@photogasm said
"After doing the Qabalistic Cross, the ritual (as instructed) states to turn to the East. What direction are you facing during the Cross? I always assumed East. Is this correct / most effective? Are the instructions to face East just redundant?"
What script are you citing? (Yes, you were facing East for the Qab Cross.)
"Also, what is the proper way to 'vibrate' the divine names? Judging by the description, no vocal sound is produced at all."
Most definitely there is sound. This is a complicated thing that I could probably write half an hour on, but the main detail is to find that point in your voice where a deep, resonant sound is produced that seems to strike the natural vibratory tone of your body. (Easy to recognize when you feel it, hard to describe in a brief response.) Give each syllable equal weight.
"Is the term vibration more referring to psychic / astral resonance?"
No, it's physical.
"Or do you actually intone the names (since pronunciations are given)? If you intone, when? While you're drawing the pentagrams, or after (during the breathing)?"
Yes, you intone. No, not while drawing them. You draw the figure, then bring your implement to its center and then vibrate the name.
"I get the impression that my LBRP could be more effective, and I am curious what others' experiences have been in this regard. I am by no means a master of this ritual."
Sounds like you could benefit from someone teaching you in person.
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@photogasm said
"I guess, also, that Liber O (page 615, Big Blue Book) confused me.
I'm having trouble figuring the order in which everything should be done."
What does "everything" inlude? Do you just mean the steps within the Pentagram ritual, or do you mean the various different practices?
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The order of the steps within the ritual.
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Qabalistic Cross.
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Draw pentagram
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Intone (vibrate) Divine Name
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Is it here we do the process described in Liber O (Breathing in the name, Sign of the Enterer, Sign of Harpocrates, et al)? Is that process of vibration even applicable in this ritual, or is it used elsewhere primarily? This is what's hanging me up. Where this step goes in the order, indeed if it's even a step!
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Invoke Archangels
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Qabalistic Cross
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Let me cite here the vibration "rules" from Liber O:
"3. The Vibration of God-names. As a further means of identifying the human consciousness with that
pure portion of it which man calls by the name of some God, let him act thus:- ("a") Stand with arms outstretched. ("See" illustration.)
("b") Breathe in deeply through the nostrils, imagining the name of the God desired entering with the
breath.
("c") Let that name descend slowly from the lungs to the heart, the solar plexus, the navel, the
generative organs, and so to the feet. {17}
("d") The moment that it appears to touch the feet, quickly advance the left foot about 12 inches,
throw forward the body, and let the hands (drawn back to the side of the eyes) shoot out, so that you
are standing in the typical position of the God Horus,["See" Illustration in Vol. I. No. 1, "Blind
Force."] and at the same time imagine the Name as rushing up and through the body, while you
**breathe it out through the nostrils **with the air which has been till then retained in the lungs. All this
must be done with all the force of which you are capable.
Then withdraw the left foot, and place the right forefinger upon the lips, so that you are in the
characteristic position of the God Harpocrates - It is a sign that the student is performing this correctly when a single "Vibration" entirely exhausts
his physical strength. It should cause him to grow hot all over, or to perspire violently, and it should
so weaken him that he will find it difficult to remain standing. - It is a sign of success, though only by the student himself is it perceived, when he hears the name
of the God vehemently roared forth, as if by the concourse of ten thousand thunders; and it should
appear to him as if that Great Voice proceeded from the Universe, and not from himself.
In both the above practices all consciousness of anything but the God-form and name should be
absolutely blotted out; and the longer it takes for normal perception to return, the better."
This woundn't produce sound, only nose-noise.
Is this method only for the Assumption of Godforms or something? - ("a") Stand with arms outstretched. ("See" illustration.)
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@YHVH said
"Let me cite here the vibration "rules" from Liber O: "
That's a correct means of vibration for the purpose stated, i.e., identification with a God-force. However, it isn't the means used in the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram and similar rituals. (Normally it's used in combination with assumption of God-forms, circumambulations, etc. at the climax of the invocation of a specific God-force.)
This often confuses even advanced students because it is adjacent to the Pentagram section of Liber O - but it's a new topic, not a continuation of the same one. See the last lines of Section II for the setup to the following two sections, and the paragraph preceding the quoted section to get the right relevance.
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Doh!
For the last couple of months I've been using the signs of the Enterer and Harpocrates way of vibrating but the impression that this was major overkill has been slowly dawning upon me. When I started experimenting with the Supreme pentagram ritual I tried the vibrations like this:
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Visualize the letters glowing white in front of you.
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Breathe in the letters and let them travel own to your heart centre, there imagining them vibrating in that centre.
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Pointing to the centre of the pentagram pronounce the name imagining the letters travelling up from your heart centre and out through the tip of your dagger / thumb / snake coiled round your forearm...
Is this actually the correct way it's done in this ritual? Is it necessary to visualize then letters or just imagine the Name as a force of light or some such abstract thing?
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@nashimiron said
"Is it necessary to visualize then letters or just imagine the Name as a force of light or some such abstract thing?"
"Necessary" may be too strong a word; but, after about 30 years doing this stuff, I still routinely use a similar approach. Seeing the Hebrew letters in living flame is a powerful embodiment of the Name, and seeing myself as inhaling those flaming letters before my exhalation and vibration is good magick!
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"Seeing the Hebrew letters in living flame is a powerful embodiment of the Name, and seeing myself as inhaling those flaming letters before my exhalation and vibration is good magick!"
Wow. I'm going to do that.
Thanks, Jim.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
Yep I do think I'd miss the blazing Hebrew letters if I dumbed them down to a glowing ball of light. I think the more effort you put into learning these details the more you get out of the ritual.
Also, when I'm doing it I notice that focusing on the individual letters as holy fetishistic items does help pull my mind up to the level I want it to be at. They really help establish a feeling of reverence, which makes you turn away from the mundane slog of the day and tune in to higher things.
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I've been lurking for a while and I have these questions I hope someone can answer.
I noticed Jim mentioned someone who was banishing earth for the LBRP and suffered as a result. I'm not sure If I'm doing that exactly but - anyway:During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?
Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah? I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on?
I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?
Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?
I've read at least a hundred articles on the lbrp and none of them cover this area.
Cheers for taking the time to read this . -
@Anchorite said
"During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?"
Nothing else. Visualize them in blue-white light.
"Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah?"
If you are speaking of the (generic) Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, then no.
"I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on? "
I agree and disagree.
Disagree: This is a real symbol! It communicates directly to subconsciousness. Subconsciousness needs little or no training in what it means, and ego-consciousness doesn't actually have to know what it means.
Agree: One benefits from knowing what the pentagram symbol means per se, but not necessarily what the intention is of the ritual. This ritual eventually communicates to the magician. It seems to do that better when one isn't trying to lay preconceptions on top of it.
"I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?"
We are switching here from the generic LBR to a specific Water Pentagram Ritual. While you can specifically use it for the purpose you state, that isn't the primary purpose. The invoking Water ritual has the primary purpose of attuning your psyche (as if dialling a radio to the right station) to the "frequency" that aligns it with the elemental idea of Water. Having previously invoked Water for some purpose, the banishing Water ritual de-tunes the mind, releasing the specific tuning to the frequency of elemental Water.
This is why I mentioned previously (this thread? another?) that the words "invoking" and "banishing" are misleading. In the specific elemental forms (rather than the generic LBR), you aren't invoking or banishing anything per se so much as tuning your mind to particular realities.
"Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?"
Same answer as above. (Generally one would not banish a planetary or elemental idea that one had not previously invoked. The "banishing" then undoes the effect of the invocation.)
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Thanks a great deal for taking the time to answer Jim. That's helped a lot. I think I wandered off the basic path for the last 6 months or so.
I do wish there was an good A A system in the UK though, it would take a lot of the load off you from what I've been reading here.
