A qustion about the LBRP!
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I was woundering can any one explain to me the role of the 4 archangels in the LBRP and do they reprasent a surtant force in the universe IE Negative Postive,Dark Light..I think we all have a good understanding on the two not one or the other being good or evil persay...more and less say lunar or Solar perhaps would be a expamle or are they above all this.
I would like some one to shed some light on this.
I understand some what the reasoning for practiceing this banshment ritual being that you are banshing the unwanted junk on your being your "Aura" if im wrong please explain this to me.
I will say this however the very first time I performed this the effect was alot more than I thought...I did not explect it to be such a vivid experance..this may in apperance seem like a simple ritual but dont let that fool you*
So please fill me in on the other aspects im unaware of.
Oh and what is the background of this Ritual...writtin by Crowley or some other Adept?
Thank you,
SetiDraconis -
@SetiDraconis said
"I was woundering can any one explain to me the role of the 4 archangels in the LBRP"
As archangels, they are Briatic. They are high-level guardians and messengers. Because they are attributed to the four Elements, they can serve as guardians of the "gates of the four quarters." (They, in turn, directly rule senior Yetziratic presiding presences within those gates, which in turn have dominion over all of the diverse Yetziratic beings of their respective Elements.)
So, they are present primarily as guardians. But, as with most details of the Pentagram Ritual (which is still the single most elegant and sophisticated ritual known to me), other things happen and are awakened when they are employed as specified in the ritual. (I leave these to each practitioner to discover.)
Three of the archangels - Raphael, Mikhael, and Gabriel - are also the three that have the most intimate traditional relationship with humanity. (Uriel sneaks in from the shadows and is more subtle in his history.) These three, under other guises, "just happen" to be the Archangels of Air, Mercury, and the Moon - Aleph, Beth, and Gimel, the three rays emanating from Kether.
"and do they reprasent a surtant force in the universe IE Negative Postive,Dark Light..I think we all have a good understanding on the two not one or the other being good or evil persay...more and less say lunar or Solar perhaps would be a expamle or are they above all this."
All of this strikes me as far too intellectual and artificial, as if they are being made to fit into some particular theory. I wouldn't particularly go along with any of this.
"So please fill me in on the other aspects im unaware of."
LOL, you could right dozens - maybe hundreds! - of pages on this one subject.
"Oh and what is the background of this Ritual...writtin by Crowley or some other Adept?"
Retained from the Golden Dawn. It's individual components have been around for a long time. Most of the pieces are found in Eliphas Levi. The text of the archangelic portion is an old Jewish children's bedtime prayer. The sequence of the Divine Names comes from an essentially unknown Qabalistic pattern from the 13th Century. The Pentagram itself, of course, purely on the basis of geometry, is an arcanum in its own right - simply the mathematical doctrine of the Golden Mean speaks volumes.
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Jim could you explain more what the "Yetziratic beings of their respective Elements" and why are they gaurded?
Also one more thing so the GD construced the LBRP from diffrant sources then and was the first Offical group of people to practice this if I understand this right?
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In theory, you could use the four crown princes of hell in place of the Archangels. Just as long as you have four guardians for the elements.
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TripleFlower could you elabrate more on this..funny you say this I just read this in a new book I got last night called "Witch Moon" by Michael Ford but I didnt know how reliable that was.
Were to you learn this from if I mite ask?
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I have never read the book before, it was just a thought using magickal theory. Ultimately the archangels and the four crown princes of hell are just aspects of the same energy. I have never used them for the LBRP before, but I think I might go do it right now to see how it goes.
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Thank you for your input on that...I will also do the same soon.
So by saying there aspects of the same energy you mean in theory you mean the univrse as a whole?
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@SetiDraconis said
"Jim could you explain more what the "Yetziratic beings of their respective Elements" and why are they gaurded?"
There are many different categories of Yetziratic beings attributed to the Elements. Most broadly, I suppose they all can be categorized as "elementals," there there are some specific categories, including genii, angels, rulers, kings, etc.
The most senior Yetziratic beings of each element are the Kerubim. These preside over all the other beings who are of the nature of that element and exist in the World of Yetzirah."
"Also one more thing so the GD construced the LBRP from diffrant sources then and was the first Offical group of people to practice this if I understand this right?"
Unless it actually existed in an earlier, undocumented form then, yes, the Golden Dawn originated the ritual in the general form by which we know it.
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@TripleFlower said
"In theory, you could use the four crown princes of hell in place of the Archangels. Just as long as you have four guardians for the elements."
Of course, if you did this, there would be different consequences, and they would depend on your soul's relationship to those particular beings.
I recommend this not be done by anyone below 5=6 or even 6=5.
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So with the Yetziratic beings these "Elementals" unless there are hostile to man kind why must they be guarded then?
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@SetiDraconis said
"So with the Yetziratic beings these "Elementals" unless there are hostile to man kind why must they be guarded then?"
Part of the guarding is to see that they don't penetrate into the sphere of the magician (and, more broadly, Assiah) without invitation, yes.
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ahh I see..so are these the same being the exist in the "Astral" or a higher level that some Magickians some times use threw practice to gain knowledge ..some what on a Goetic level I guess?
Not to get off topic.
And in regards to the 4 crown princes of Hell [I dont like useing that term] could you elaberate on what you mean by "your soul's relationship to those particular beings" for explame one not of the Draconian Current or baically any one not posseing skills in magick and condenced mind?
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@TripleFlower said
"In theory, you could use the four crown princes of hell in place of the Archangels. Just as long as you have four guardians for the elements."Of course, if you did this, there would be different consequences, and they would depend on your soul's relationship to those particular beings.
I recommend this not be done by anyone below 5=6 or even 6=5."
However, Jim, how is anyone below 5=6 to know their relationships to the Archangels and more than the Four Crown Princes?
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Good point on the last part...jim seems to be a very well trained magickian but it seems perhaps a little byeist[In Genral,the theory I mean] to say its ok to work with one force vs the other..of course Darker forces can be hostile to the magickian how ever those are the lower forms of being "Astral enititys" on the astral mostly[I say mostly] but I could be wrong.
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Yeah I am just not sure. I have actually encountered schools of thought that say to avoid the archangels as well up to a certain point, but in the Thelemic systems you use them right away. But why do we make an exception for the archangels and not other forces/entities?
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@TripleFlower said
"However, Jim, how is anyone below 5=6 to know their relationships to the Archangels and more than the Four Crown Princes?"
Generally, they aren't.
(More complete answer: There usually is a lot of progressively growing relationship to the Angel that starts a lot earlier than 5=6, so the above isn't a flawless answer.)
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@TripleFlower said
"Yeah I am just not sure. I have actually encountered schools of thought that say to avoid the archangels as well up to a certain point, but in the Thelemic systems you use them right away. But why do we make an exception for the archangels and not other forces/entities?"
And classical magick does also. Basically, the Archangels are just about the single safest of magical companions and the pretty much the most useful inner plane relationships to build. They represent that toward which humanity is naturally progressing (in this life, for many!), and wholly compatible with current human consciousness.
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@SetiDraconis said
"Good point on the last part...jim seems to be a very well trained magician but it seems perhaps a little byeist[In Genral,the theory I mean] to say its ok to work with one force vs the other."
It is safer for humans to work with forces compatible with the basic nature of human consciousness than it is for humans to work with forces incompatible with the basic nature of human consciousness.
It's similar to saying that it is safer for humans to breathe air that has a certain level of oxygen in it and is within a certain temperature range, rather than to breathe, say, all methane and at a temperature that destoys human cells. That's not a moral opinion, and it isn't even one biased against methane. It just anticipates the consequences of one choice or the other.
"of course Darker forces can be hostile to the magician how ever those are the lower forms of being "Astral enititys" on the astral mostly[I say mostly] but I could be wrong."
I'm not sure what that sentence means
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Ill elabrate what I meant on surtant Enititys of the lower plane and them being hostile to the Magickian as I understand it...being that some of these entitys are unstble and harmfull in a number of ways and I was thinking you meant that calling forth the 4 pricnes,you were putting them in the same boat with these other darker forces [turns out that is not what you meant]..plus I feel the 4 crown princes as being Intiating forces that can and will assit one with a higher consciousness!
I agree with you on your point being that it is safer for one to work with these forces the 4 archangels becasue in my own personal experance I feel them to be neutral beings **
How ever I do feel if one is compelled and does have the seed of the "Black Flame" with in them they can do this with no damage to the person..but still even then perhaps its best one be a well balanced indviudal with a healty mind..[this is something I have yet to hear any Thelemanite touch up on at all oddly] but than again we are only talking about a Banshment Ritual.
Interesting enoghf in a simlarity [In that its a little of a darker ritual] with the 4 crown princes and Sor Nemas book she gives 2 diffrant Banshment rites that do call upon Shaitan,Maat,Babalon which ive heard many equate with lilith,but dont quate me if im wrong on that I think, I even read some were that Crowley in one of his visions conected the two.
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Jim is right in his statement the vehicle is not normally strong enough to work with such volatile energies until they have progressed somewhat. Like plutonium you wouldn't just give it to anyone to handle that would just be well? dumb
The same goes for enochian or even the goetia.