Tzaddi is not the Star
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Speaking of which, Eschelman, any chance you'll take a crack at a follow up book which details Crowley's writings on, about, and for the grades 8=3 and up?
I understand that work in the highest grades of the A:.A:. system might be more secretive (?), but Crowley has a bunch to say on the grades scattered throughout his writings, (like the bit about a person being able to attain the level of Magus in his system and how that works within the structure of the current Aeon as he defines it), and I really appreciated your work and effort to provide a reference source and interprative piece which has helped me to better grasp the lower/middle grades... so I think we'd all benefit if someone with your inner knowledge put together a piece for the higher grades. Crowley can be tough, especially because his ideas developed over time, and because he wrote sooooo much that bits about a magus are scattered over this liber, that book, and these diarys, etc. Maybe even include The Urn??? etc.
For the Ips-I-missed, you could include his bit from his autobiography, etc. and maybe give an interpretation on why he wasn't telling anyone but Leah (was it?)... and what it might mean... and how the Fool Atu might imply it.
I really enjoy your "blue book", and would be more than happy to shell out some hard earned dough for the companion piece?
So...
any chance? Make some money and some people happy
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@gmugmble said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The necessary conclusion is that the two sequences tell a different story. The Tarot trump numbers tell of one sequential story (usually taken 0 throgh 21); the Paths tell a different sequential story (usually taken Tav through Aleph)."This has long been a source of befuddlement and bewilderment to my benighted mind. In the first sequence, the Fool is the unenlightened soul at the beginning of its long journey, and the World is the "Crown of the Magi", the reward at the end. But in the second sequence, you begin with the World, where it then represents the material world or the base lead to be turned into gold, and the Fool is the highest manifestation of spirit before it blinks out into Union with God. I have a hard time reconciling the two views."
This is hard to go into in a brief response, but the following may help:
There is a model common in Western occultism, wherein a Path of Incarnation is seen as descending curve which is complemented by a Path of Return. Like all models, it's important with this one to remember that "the map is not the terrain." In the present case, the two-phase idea ("down and back") is actually pretty misleading.
It's misleading because both phases are continuous. It's actually all a continuing process of incarnation, which only seems to "circle back" because the story's point of view changes.
Unconditioned spirit incarnates, i.e., veils itself in progressive densities. (There are several different ways to say this, of course, but I'm sure you get the idea.) At some point in the process it not only has formulated matter (as known in Assiah), but has begun to evolve that matter where it can contain primitive levels of consciousness. The process continues, the matter becoming progressively more sophisticated so that it can contain progressively more sophisticated levels of consciousness. At some point in the process, the bare trace of consciousness inhabiting the matter becomes self-regarding and deludedly thinks of itself as a separate being - which is useful, because this accelerates the process of the original Aleph-idea progressively incarnating more deeply.
The goal is to create a construct in Assiah sufficiently sophisticated that it is capable of housing and actualizing the entirety of the original consciousness. But, during the process, the point of view changes in the story and is told from the angle of the projection. Each of the Paths, from Tav upward, represents the opening of a matured and strengthened lower vehicle to incarnate a higher band of consciousness.
But, all the way through, this is really the continuation of the originally unconditioned spirit extending itself into denser manifestation with the goal (one way of saying it) of eventually "fitting it all in."
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@Jim Eshelman said
"both 90 (Tzaddi) and 4 (face number) describe the same idea: a square"How do you get a square out of 90?"
A square is a 90° angle.
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@Scarecrow said
"Speaking of which, Eschelman, any chance you'll take a crack at a follow up book which details Crowley's writings on, about, and for the grades 8=3 and up?"
I made the decision, in writing The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'., not to do that. It would have been easy enough to write the chapters, but it would have been really bad idea to write them. Here are some of the reasons:
- There is, admittedly, some difficulty in meaningfully expressing the particular states etc. of those grades. This is just a matter of writing craft, of course, and could have been overcome for the most part, so it's a lesser reason; but it's a consideration.
2.The chapters on 8=3 and up would only have been of use to someone who was already a 7=4 and had already undertaken the practices and completed the tasks already laid out in Chapter 11 of the book. Yet such a person wouldn't need those chapters. They would already have everything they needed, and I didn't want to write just a theoretical work for those who didn't need it.
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As a sub-part of (2), the next stage past 7=4 is Babe of the Abyss. The nature of that grade is so individual that mostly I'd have had to leap right over it (punny imagery intended), and gone on, with a gap, to 8=3. That's not a very good model for the book.
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One of the greatest points of silliness (I might say idiocy) in Thelema for a long time has been the tendency of people to claim "crossing the Abyss" or equivalent - when they obviously haven't the slightest clue. I don't want to contribute to this tendency in any fashion by putting down words that some Ruach-laden ego could repurpose to claim his (it's pretty much always "his") achievement of this step. Remember, "By their fruits and nuts shall ye know them."
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And it's worth repeating number (2) - The people for whom such chapters would be intended wouldn't need them. To someone who isn't already an Adeptus Exemptus well-advanced in the work of Chesed, Zayin, and Cheth (already given in M&MAA), it would be of no real use at all.
I might eventually discuss them in another context or framework, as you hint. But I especially didn't want to include them in that book, and it is a very low priority compared to other things I need to do. The Appendices of M&MAA do give the basics.
I'm also happy to answer specific questions to the extent that I can.
"I understand that work in the highest grades of the A:.A:. system might be more secretive (?)"
Not really. That is, not in the sense of "oaths of secrecy."
"but Crowley has a bunch to say on the grades scattered throughout his writings, (like the bit about a person being able to attain the level of Magus in his system and how that works within the structure of the current Aeon as he defines it)"
Those quotes are already in the current book, since "One Star in Sight" is reproduced.
"and I really appreciated your work and effort to provide a reference source and interpretive piece which has helped me to better grasp the lower/middle grades."
Thank you
"Crowley can be tough, especially because his ideas developed over time, and because he wrote sooooo much that bits about a magus are scattered over this liber, that book, and these diarys, etc."
"Scattered." I love that. It's remarkably apropos.
"Maybe even include The Urn???"
Wouldn't do so. Just pick up The Confessions of Aleister Crowley for all of that information (with only slightly different editing).
PS - Are you aware that I've already posted the notes from which I might have written a chapter on 8=3? They're here: www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=339
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@Jim Eshelman said
"That was a hard one for me, too, until I realized that in the whole of Tarot's history this was never the case except when Waite and Case separately tried to shoehorn it into being by reversing the numbers on cards 8 and 11. Other than with Waite and Case forced-fixes, for centuries 8 has been Justice/Libra (etc.), and 11 has been Leo/Strength (etc.), and that already breaks the pattern.
"Jim, thanks a lot for the answer, that definitely clears things up! I see now how the 8/11 numbering-swap was contrived by HOGD members. However, if we're going to switch the cards 8 and 11 and keep them that way in the Thoth tarot, shouldn't 4 and 17 also be switched, to keep things strictly symmetrical? (or switch 8 and 11 back to original placements as Adjustment and Lust) I see how the number 4 may relate to the Emperor better than 17, etc., but even so, that doesn't seem to be a perfectly symmetrical switch which the *Book of Thoth *seems to boast.
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@Escarabaj said
"I see now how the 8/11 numbering-swap was contrived by HOGD members."
Not HOGD in general. Just Waite and Case. The GD itself preserved 8 as Justice and 11 as Strength.
"However, if we're going to switch the cards 8 and 11 and keep them that way in the Thoth tarot, shouldn't 4 and 17 also be switched, to keep things strictly symmetrical?"
We aren't switching the numbers. We're retaining them with Teth = Atu XI and Lamed = Atu VIII. The symmetry is brought about by the letter swap which has Tzaddi (now rightly recognized as The Emperor) = Atu IV and Heh (now rightly recognized as The Star) = Atu XVII.
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Jim,
I might have missed a post on this, but what do you think it MEANS?
What changes in the AA system by transposing the Star with the Emperor on the path that connects Chokmah with Tiphareth?
Have I mentioned how much it irks me (which wouldn't suprise me if it was his intention to do so) that of all the major arcana, one of the only time he talks about the paths specifically within a cards description is the Emperor card in which he says:
"It is finally to be observed that the white light which descends upon him indicates the position of this card in the Tree of Life. His authority is derived from Chokmah, the creative Wisdom, the Word, and is exerted upon Tiphareth, the organized man."
Bill Heidrick puts it this way in one of his online pages:
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Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh = is the secret force (Hermit) entering the organizing of forms (Emperor) to teach the true nature (Hierophant) of the order of creation (Emperor).or, using Crowley's correspondence between and The Star Trump:
Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh = is the secret force (Hermit) entering the totality of the creation (Star) to inform (Hierophant) all that exists (Star)."
I'm wondering if you have a summary-like take (such as this one) on the change and how it plays out in:
- Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh scheme
- Tree of life paths scheme
I note (and enjoy) your explanation within the Practicus Grade Guide that the Path of Tzaddi (which is now the Emperor from Netzach to Yesod) = Liber HHH's SSS Fire like raising of the Kundalini - however I, as I've already whined, am missing the accompanying expose on the new connection between the Star, Heh and it's accompanying tasks (lowley me-man ain't not he-man)
How does that link up to Liber Viarum Viae and it's placement as
- Heh, The Formulation of the Flaming Star. Liber V. in it's original position between Tiphareth and Chokmah
- Tzaddi, The Adoration under the Starry Heaven. Liber XI, NV (from
Liber CCXX) in it's position between Netzach and Yesod
Thanks much once again! Love having a person I can finally ask ridiculously eccentric questions like this to/at!
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@Scarecrow said
"I might have missed a post on this, but what do you think it MEANS?
What changes in the AA system by transposing the Star with the Emperor on the path that connects Chokmah with Tiphareth?"
I don't think it was a transposition. I don't think there was a change. I think this was always the correct pattern in (spiritual-psychological) nature, and was simply understood wrong.
Kabbalah anticipated this. The Zohar contains the message that Tzaddi contained a mystery that had to be kept secret for a later time. The experience of the opening of Tiphereth to Chokmah along the Path of Heh was always the mystery of the Cosmic Mother, the Lady of the Stars.
What did change was our knowledge of this; and it occurred at a time when humanity no longer needed (for its short-term psycho-spiritual development, the emergence of the Ruach) to mistakenly assert The Emperor in the place of Heh. - One reason the error was allowed to persevere so long was likely that almost none in the history of the world had crossed that Path in actuality and attained to Chokmah.
Of course, many would have crossed the Path of Tzaddi. The Star was masking what was really happening there. Why was it so easy to miss what was happening here? Mostly we have only good guesses. Surely not the least of the reasons was that few who were in charge of the formalized Mysteries really understood the Mystery of the Feminine during the last aeon; and the experience of Tzaddi-Aries was easy to confuse with an opening to the Fire of Netzach.
"Have I mentioned how much it irks me..."
Oh, get over it
The Book of Thoth is filled with typos and small mistakes."I'm wondering if you have a summary-like take (such as this one) on the change and how it plays out"
Again, just for the record, I don't think there was a change. I think a long-standing error was exposed. Nonetheless...
"...in:
- Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh scheme"
Easy. So easy I might be missing what isn't obvious to you. We finally have the feminine where it belongs, as both Mother and Daughter.
"2. Tree of life paths scheme"
Ask a more specific question. By now, this pattern of Heh = Aquarius = The Star and Tzaddi = Aries = The Emperor is so solidly engrained in me for so long that I've kinda forgotten what isn't obvious to anyone else. A more specific question would help.
"I note (and enjoy) your explanation within the Practicus Grade Guide that the Path of Tzaddi (which is now the Emperor from Netzach to Yesod) = Liber HHH's SSS Fire like raising of the Kundalini - however I, as I've already whined, am missing the accompanying expose on the new connection between the Star, Heh and it's accompanying tasks (lowley me-man ain't not he-man)
How does that link up to Liber Viarum Viae and it's placement as
- Heh, The Formulation of the Flaming Star. Liber V. in it's original position between Tiphareth and Chokmah
- Tzaddi, The Adoration under the Starry Heaven. Liber XI, NV (from
Liber CCXX) in it's position between Netzach and Yesod"
Earlier today I pointed to a post from 2-to-3 years ago where I was writing on the task of the Magister Templi (which includes working the Path of Heh). - In Chapter 10 of The Mystical & Magical System of the A.'.A.'., I gave an amended version of Liber Viarum Viae which shows "The Adoration under the Starry Heaven. Liber XI., NV (from Liber CCXX)" under Heh and "The Formulation of the Flaming Star. Liber V" under Tzaddi. This produces a quite interesting pattern, since Liber HAD, Liber NV, and Liber VIII (which might as well have been Liber Ra-Hoor-Khu in relation to the other to) are the three Paths opening to Chokmah.
Again, in reference to the Task of 8=3, there are several ways that The Path of Heh manifests according to published accounts. Aside from the symbolism of the Path itself, wherein Tiphereth opens to Chokmah - the Sun or single Star at our center finds its place in the context of the field of stars of Chokmah - "One Star in Sight" expresses the Task of the M.T. as three tasks attributed to the three Paths opening to Chokmah. Of these, the one corresponding to Heh is, "the renunciation of His enjoyment of the Infinite so that he may formulate Himself as the Finite." There is also native to 8=3 the Vision of Wonder, which is the Vision of the Path of Aquarius. There are any number of other correspondences, here, not the least of which is that Heh was always expected to be the Great Goddess, the embodiment of the five-lettered Elohim of Shekinah Herself. And... where do you think the symbolsim of The Urn came from in the approach to Chokmah if not from the Path of the Water Bearer?
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head at this late hour.
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Ahhh... the Urn... I had not associated that to the Path of the Water Bearer or to the Star card yet!!! And now that little star in the golden Urn takes on the meaning of the Word; which makes sense after reading your notes on the Master of the Temple:
"TO ATTAIN THE GRADE OF MAGUS he must accomplish Three Tasks; the renunciation of His enjoyment of the Infinite so that he may formulate Himself as the Finite [Heh]; "
Which makes me think that it's not the Woman figure that we must associate with if we're to understand the Star card (as it's associated downwards from Chokmah)... but that little star itself.
And now I must re-read the Urn
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@Scarecrow said
"Which makes me think that it's not the Woman figure that we must associate with if we're to understand the Star card (as it's associated downwards from Chokmah)... but that little star itself."
The star... but as it exists in the context of the infinite, of the entire body of Nuit.
Tiphereth brings the understanding of the star (that is, the Sun) in and of itself. Through the Path of Heh, the adept has the opportunity to place that star in the context of the entire Body of Stars.
So, of course, the vision inherent in the Path is a Vision of the Body of Nuit.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"The Zohar contains the message that Tzaddi contained a mystery that had to be kept secret for a later time. The experience of the opening of Tiphereth to Chokmah along the Path of Heh was always the mystery of the Cosmic Mother, the Lady of the Stars."
Is it possible to dig up the said quote on the Zohar implying this? I would guess they didn't mean that 2 of their letters' attributions should be switched, nor that they should be switched upon the paths of the Tree of Life (which is essentially the same process as changing the Alphabet Order of the Hebrew Alphabet, which goes against what Nuit states: "All these letters of my Book are aright".)
@Jim Eshelman said
"What did change was our knowledge of this; and it occurred at a time when humanity no longer needed (for its short-term psycho-spiritual development, the emergence of the Ruach) to mistakenly assert The Emperor in the place of Heh. - One reason the error was allowed to persevere so long was likely that almost none in the history of the world had crossed that Path in actuality and attained to Chokmah."
When you associate the Emperor only with the Ruach, you deny the Divine King, and true spiritual victory. He is Nuit's Divine Golden Child in full maturity as Horus, the window of light streaming intensely in. This Key is about intense Divine Light, not merely of the Ruach. It is nigh laughable to put it at 7-9, conjuncting Venus and the Moon.
www.aiwaz.net/tree-of-life-logical-progression/a40
I agree with the Tree of Life as contained in the essay above, where by the "nearest sphere first" rule Key IV Aries The King connects the Paths 2-4, and Key V Taurus The Hierophant connects the Paths 2-6. This makes wonderful and powerful sense to me, for which you can see The King transmits the Word of Chokmah below the abyss to Jupiter. The Hierophant is also better dignified as transmitter of the Solar Mysteries as 2-6, tying him to Mithras, the golden bull, etc. Thus to me what you are implying is to make Aquarius 2-4, which would weaken the Divine Word/Law as transmitted by Aries from Chokmah to Chesed. Then further to put Aries The King as 7-9 between Netzach/Venus and Yesod/Moon weakens The King, which I find very inappropriate, but perfect for the feminized male god of water Aquarius.
@Jim Eshelman said
"few who were in charge of the formalized Mysteries really understood the Mystery of the Feminine during the last aeon; and the experience of Tzaddi-Aries was easy to confuse with an opening to the Fire of Netzach."
You are not giving humanities ancestors their due credit. Our entire goddess mythology, in all its beauty, sprung from the past...Nuit, Isis, Hathor, Audhumbla, Astarte, Aphrodite, Artemis, Diana, Venus, Luna, etc. What have we done to top this recently?! This modern moment right now to me seems the most spiritually deprived of perhaps our whole history. Women have got comparatively more rights, but that isn't to say the divine feminine is appreciated more. I am optimistic though that more will attain to "Nuitian consciousness", that Thelema based actions will eventually "Regenerate the earth...".
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@Jim Eshelman said
" We aren't switching the numbers. We're retaining them with Teth = Atu XI and Lamed = Atu VIII. The symmetry is brought about by the letter swap which has Tzaddi (now rightly recognized as The Emperor) = Atu IV and Heh (now rightly recognized as The Star) = Atu XVII."
OK now I see that. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me. -
@Wizardiaoan said
"
@Jim Eshelman said
"The Zohar contains the message that Tzaddi contained a mystery that had to be kept secret for a later time. The experience of the opening of Tiphereth to Chokmah along the Path of Heh was always the mystery of the Cosmic Mother, the Lady of the Stars."Is it possible to dig up the said quote on the Zohar implying this?"
It's in the story of how Aleph got to be the first letter. Read carefully God's answer to Tzaddi. - No, it didn't specify what the eventual solution would be. The passage is careful to indicate that there is a Mystery that had to be wholly held back at that time.
"I would guess they didn't mean that 2 of their letters' attributions should be switched, nor that they should be switched upon the paths of the Tree of Life (which is essentially the same process as changing the Alphabet Order of the Hebrew Alphabet, which goes against what Nuit states: "All these letters of my Book are aright".)"
Of course. The letters themselves are aright. There's no effort to change their sequence or their placement on the Tree."
@Jim Eshelman said
"What did change was our knowledge of this; and it occurred at a time when humanity no longer needed (for its short-term psycho-spiritual development, the emergence of the Ruach) to mistakenly assert The Emperor in the place of Heh. - One reason the error was allowed to persevere so long was likely that almost none in the history of the world had crossed that Path in actuality and attained to Chokmah."When you associate the Emperor only with the Ruach, you deny the Divine King, and true spiritual victory."
Interesting language... since the Path of Tzaddi, attributed to The Emperor, is a path leading to Victory.
I partly agree and partly disagree with your statement above. The disagreement is based on the fact that the Divine King archetype, though absolutely pivotal in the Aeon of Osiris now expired, is of no particular supremacy in the present Aeon of Horus. The agreement is based on the fact that it still one of the important archetypal images of Tiphereth.
Though Tzaddi doesn't open to Tiphereth directly, it does plant important seeds to that. Experience of my own path, and of watching others traverse the Tree in both inner and outer frameworks of initiation, shows the important pre-Tipheric quality of the Netzach stage of initiation. Also, the Paths of Resh and Tzaddi, rising in parallel from Yesod, play a huge, critical part in the work of the Portal. The symbols are all quite interwoven there.
I wouldn't at all relate it only to the Ruach - the entire Tree exists in all Worlds and in all levels of the psyche. But I would say that the focus on Divine Kingship climaxes at Tiphereth and, almost immediately, the Work takes a new direction beyond that point. Horus is "the visible object of workship" for those in their approach to Tiphereth, but that primarily dissolves into the feminine archetypes thereafter. The Divine King is an important, but quite intermediary and proportionately minor, archetype in the present Aeon.
"This Key is about intense Divine Light, not merely of the Ruach."
The key is especially a representation of Sovereign Reason being the path by which instinctual energies are sublimated into the Divine Victory.
...On your later remarks, please note that nothing in the Tzaddi-Heh switch affects the Vav attribution to the Hierophant - it is exactly the same. I do think, though, that you are still heavily caught up in Osirian thinking - your constant emphasis on the solar and evident hyper-valuation of the masculine all belongs in the bottom half of the Tree. The Sun is no longer the primal symbol of attainment in the New Aeon except as a step toward understanding that it is but one of myriad stars within the infinite body of space. You are attempting to place it near the very top of the Tree where it has way too much importance - this is the error of the ego.
"Then further to put Aries The King as 7-9 between Netzach/Venus and Yesod/Moon weakens The King, which I find very inappropriate, but perfect for the feminized male god of water Aquarius."
But that's one of the main points of the New Aeon! The king is dead. The masculine, which for millennia was in disproportionate and excessive predominance, needs to be debased back to its proper petty place in the scheme of things (proportionately speaking).
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It just occured to me that the closing lines of AL 1:57 are almost direct pointers to the letter Heh. As I understand it Heh is the letter of revelation. The use of the words "secret" and "reveal" in verse 57 are as good a way of saying, "It's the letter Heh", without actually saying so.
Close or way off?
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I like it. And BTW, contrary to GD texts, the correct spelling of the letter name Heh is HA.
And, of course, it is Aquarius, not Aries, that is characterized by revelation.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Of course. The letters themselves are aright. There's no effort to change their sequence or their placement on the Tree."
Yes, I made a mistake in my interpretation of your desired schema. You do continue to place Heh as 2-6 but then attribute it to Aquarius as The Star. So no, this does not change the Hebrew Alphabet order, it changes the traditional Tarot order, putting Aquarius in the 5th place and Aries in the 18th place. I think this is the only way to do it if you wish to overlay the Tarot order upon the Hebrew alphabet, but recall you saying they two orders don't have to line up, etc. (but which I think is flawed logic.)
@Jim Eshelman said
"...I would say that the focus on Divine Kingship climaxes at Tiphereth and, almost immediately, the Work takes a new direction beyond that point. Horus is "the visible object of workship" for those in their approach to Tiphereth, but that primarily dissolves into the feminine archetypes thereafter. The Divine King is an important, but quite intermediary and proportionately minor, archetype in the present Aeon."
Yes I disagree with you that the Divine King is completely internalized or perceived below the abyss in Tiphareth as an Adeptus Minor. There is a higher, more booning or inspired aspect to him in Chesed-Jupiter, the Wise King, but where the full gnosis becomes paramount is in Chokmah when the Chiah is developed, in the High Magus grade. For you to overplay Chokmah as "the Sphere of Stars" and the Divine Feminine I think is in error, though it is true that the adept at that stage will be in intimate continuous gnosis with Nuit. The King I am speaking of is Hadit in Chokmah, whose Chiah is matured and whose Ajna chakra is activated (the Divine Pharoah, etc.)
I don't buy into the Isis, Osiris, Horus aeonic theory too much. These archetypes are eternal beyond aeons, and there is due room for each one in each aeon (thus to say the King Father is dead is hogwash I maintain, and will only result in spinelessness, lack of virility, etc., if imbalanced). They compose the eternal Sacred Triad of Father, Mother, Child (symbolized by the 21st letter Shin).
@Jim Eshelman said
"But that's one of the main points of the New Aeon! The king is dead. The masculine, which for millennia was in disproportionate and excessive predominance, needs to be debased back to its proper petty place in the scheme of things (proportionately speaking)."
The King Father is never in a petty place, Hadit truly is never debased. I'm all for dissolution of the corpus/ego and microcosm into the smooth point or circumference of Nuit, but this does not debase nor make weak. Rather, the microcosm is brought to perfection and one's little circle is annihilated, replaced, or ascended to Nuit's big circle (identity or perspective is shifted from one to all, from looking within to without to looking from without within). It is Hadit's Will to "follow the love of Nuit". The gnosis is a continuous identification upon Nuit while at the same time being perfectly individual as Hadit, a complete connection marked by an incorruptibility of the golden body. Hadit the King is never and will never be dead ("I am Life"), he is the pride and joy of Nuit. Debasing the male results in spinelessness, completely not what RHK is about. Again, there needs to be a true balance in the Sacred Triad for things to go aright: and indeed there is in the three chapters of Liber Legis.
I do agree though that there is really no chance of error in Nuit/Goddess worship, that Her gnosis is ever the highest. I also am not saying that any attachment to possible negative associations to "kingliness" (such as separative ego) should be maintained as one progresses, only that with for instance the high initiation into the Grade of Chokmah one is naturally put in accord with Hadit/Chiah/Ajna (the True Will or Self), and with it an extreme and virtuous kingly presence abounds, full of Life radiating Light.
Crowley in the book of Thoth comments on The Emperor as:
"This figure is the alchemical symbol of Suphur. Sulphur is the male fiery energy of the Universe, the Rajas of Hindu philosophy. This is the swift creative energy, the initiative of all Being. The power of the Emperor is a generalization of the paternal power..."
A good image of this card is the Pharaoh whose Chiah is developed, with the "Secret Serpent" Hadit leaping out of his Ajna chakra. It does not deserve to be "debased" to 7-9, but rather to rightly remain emanating from Chokmah, with the connotation of the true King being a Magus who has virtuously attained highly, and whose Chiah is developed and Ajna activated. Again, to put the Pharaoh as 7-9 in between Venus & Moon is ridiculous I think, it is much better purple as the traditional more feminized male god of Water Aquarius. I love the energy of Aquarius, and find it a good fit between 7-9, but not between 2-4 or 2-6 (it should not connect to Chokmah over The King).
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@Wizardiaoan said
"...where the full gnosis becomes paramount is in Chokmah when the Chiah is developed, in the High Magus grade. For you to overplay Chokmah as "the Sphere of Stars" and the Divine Feminine I think is in error, though it is true that the adept at that stage will be in intimate continuous gnosis with Nuit. The King I am speaking of is Hadit in Chokmah, whose Chiah is matured and whose Ajna chakra is activated (the Divine Pharoah, etc.)"
I didn't equate Chokmah with the feminine, that reference was to Heh-Aquarius, which shares the "field of stars" symbolism with Chokmah. But yes, we appear to agree that Chokmah's best symbolism is mascvuline-paternal.
But I disagree that the King archetype has anything to do with this manifestation. Other paternal images abound, but the King is distinct to the stage of adepthood. (In Liber Legis it even appears to be a synonym for 'adept" whenever it is used.)
"I don't buy into the Isis, Osiris, Horus aeonic theory too much."
Then we don't have a whole lot more to discuss on this, because it's pretty fundamental to our whole system.
"The King Father is never in a petty place, Hadit truly is never debased."
I don't at all equate Hadit with the King. Masculine root-idea yes, king no. The King is a much lower archetype.
"I do agree though that there is really no chance of error in Nuit/Goddess worship, that Her gnosis is ever the highest. I also am not saying that any attachment to possible negative associations to "kingliness" (such as separative ego) should be maintained as one progresses, only that with for instance the high initiation into the Grade of Chokmah one is naturally put in accord with Hadit/Chiah/Ajna (the True Will or Self), and with it an extreme and virtuous kingly presence abounds, full of Life radiating Light."
I agree in all respects except your equation of kingship to this. Chokmah far transcends kingship, which belongs in the Adept sephiroth.
"Again, to put the Pharaoh as 7-9 in between Venus & Moon is ridiculous I think, it is much better purple as the traditional more feminized male god of Water Aquarius. I love the energy of Aquarius, and find it a good fit between 7-9, but not between 2-4 or 2-6 (it should not connect to Chokmah over The King)."
You appear not to have noticed that, in most cases, the symbolism of a path between two sephiroth seems almost the polar opposite of the sephirothic symbols themselves. Aside from all the other, more direct reasons that the corrected attributions make abundant sense, it only makes sense to me that a feminine image belongs between the two most paternal sephiroth, and a masculine one between the two most feminine.
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@gmugmble said
"To derail the discussion slightly ...
Do we still equate Tzaddi with "the Natural Intelligence" and Heh with "the Constituting Intelligence" or do these get swapped?"There's no official Thelemic position... but Temple of Thelema does keep the Path title/description with the Path. Thus, Tzaddi is Aries, The Emperor, and the Natural Consciousness, while Heh is Aquarius, The Star, and the Constituting Consciousness.