Ordeals and HGA
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Yes, I would call that Understanding, qabalistically speaking, though I open myself to correction.
To my mind, the next step would be the life one chooses to live after attaining full Understanding, referred to as Wisdom.
And then...? Perhaps Nirvanic bliss until something, some Function, some Season, some Call finds a source of gravity in us and compels us back down, ...if it can indeed be said to have the power to do so...?
That's as close a picture of it as my mind has been able to create so far. But I have no evidence for it at all. It's just a mental construct that helps me imagine the possibility. Your own mileage may vary...
Upon second look, it appears I've combined a response to two threads into this one, tagging on my thoughts about reincarnation. Eh... my feelings won't be hurt if you ignore it, and I do think it still applies... lol...
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Hello all, i am new here and will post a proper intro later but wanted to reply to this thread.
I think the ordeals run smooth if you listen to the hga and do what you know/feel inside to be the right thing.
It is when you go against what you KNOW is right that the ordeals seem to reach a point of severity as the lower will fights for survival.
Sapere Aude
Love is the law.
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@Labyrinthus said
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@he atlas itch said
"As I understand it, germs were responsible for wiping out the Native American Indians. Their immunity systems had not built up the necessary resistance. European settlers exploited this fact by giving them blankets deliberately infected with smallpox."Don't believe it. This is all Leftist propaganda at best. Actually it is a giant pack of lies.
There was no 'genocide' against the Native Americans. No reasonable evidence of this can be backed up by real history. On the other hand we do have actual historical evidence to show that Native American tribes were in a constant state of war with each other. They were 'warrior' societies after all.
When the white man came and many tribes were decimated by smallpox it was not the white man that came along and 'exterminated' the weakened tribe... it was the tribe's traditional tribal enemies that swooped in and finished them off. Some grizzled old officer's comment of "the only good injun is a dead injun" is the only so called "evidence" presented as justification of this genocide theory.
The story of the contaminated blankets is total hogwash. They were gifts of clean blankets made to the chief of a neighboring tribe as genuine peace offerings. The comment that they were taken from the Fort hospital was construed as a conscious attempt at germ warfare. But the absurdity of this is lost on the self-loathing Leftists who push this tripe. At that point in history Pasteur was barely presenting his germ theory of disease in Paris and most doctors in Europe and certainly America were clueless about it. Doubtless, the soldiers on the frontier had no idea of such a possibility.
All across America today there are MILLIONS of Native Americans living on their own land speaking their Native language and following their traditional customs (minus the constant warfare). DOZENS of tribes. In fact it is estimated that their population numbers today are roughly equivalent to what they were when Columbus landed here in 1492."
Wow. There are so many things wrong with this I'm just gonna start hacking it up now. But first, I usually leave this out and let people talk amongst themselves about a culture and heritage they know little about, but this is important so you know I'm not blowing smoke out my third eye-- I am a member of two tribes. I am an (BIA) enrolled member of the the Shoshone Paiute/Miwok tribe. Our tribe was terminated in 1983. We still have council and are tribally active, more so, my father is the chairman of our band. My allotment was taken then and given to the BLM. We are not a warrior society (never were) and clumping all tribes when there are over 500 nations is ridonkulous. We are a sweat lodge society and not to be confused with the Lakota clear on the other side of the continent. My other tribe is Kwakuitl of the Pacific Northwest. We are also not a warring tribe in the least (nor were our neighbors) and our society is based on the potlatch and Hamatsa, a magical society. I hate that people are so ignorant and I'm just gonna point it out. It's not magical in the least to have so little knowledge and speak of it as if you do.
Now then, both of my tribes have been decimated by disease, small pox blankets (www.missionscalifornia.com/ate/effect-small-pox-have-indians-mission-any.html). My tribe was terminated because of the severe reduction brought on in the 1850's of these diseases (not just small pox, but alcohol and white food, ie: flour and sugar). I am one of the remaining of 500 people in our tribe. You might think that it doesn't count, but thank god you're not in charge! I can list several ways genocide is still being conducted directly to me and mine. I'm not making this up nor do I have anything to gain by it. I like this thread and think it's important to pound things out, but lets be honest about it. Belief has little to do with magick. If you're skeptical, then let me correct you. The genocide amongst native peoples has well exceeded the holocaust and is a known and concerning issue amongst academics and humanitarians everywhere. The genocide "theory" is not a theory, but fact, it's still happening today. I ask where you get your propaganda from? Seriously, I'm in my thesis.
There are millions of Indians? Where? And who says there are "as many as when Columbus landed"? Columbus never landed here.
On that note, there is a lot to be gained by understanding indigenous wisdom. There are also indigenous magical societies that have nothing to do with mainstream religion and are in close alignment with the 93 current.
I know the Hopi prophecy and star nations are the cradle of mainstream understanding of native culture. The Hopi are only one tribe of hundreds. They are a Kiva society and I am positive what is known about their prophecies is so slight since it's a hidden magic.
I won't go into the level of racism you produced here, but it is really out dated.
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Hell0,
Im new here as well and am also undergoing a most trying purgative ordeal-have been for sometime.
It certainly isn't pleasant yet i know, instinctively, that the trials are for my benefit but not only mine but also the collective. HOWEVER, the unpleasantness needs to be reiterated. There are times its persistent causticity threaten to turn me into a stark, raving, homicidal maniac! Then i take a deep breathe and capitulate. sighits for our own good, really ....
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@Stag-Nation said
"Hell0,
Im new here as well and am also undergoing a most trying purgative ordeal-have been for sometime.
It certainly isn't pleasant yet i know, instinctively, that the trials are for my benefit but not only mine but also the collective. HOWEVER, the unpleasantness needs to be reiterated. There are times its persistent causticity threaten to turn me into a stark, raving, homicidal maniac! Then i take a deep breathe and capitulate. sighits for our own good, really ....
"Jim may have something to add as a former member of BOTA and also advanced through the A.'.A.'. (I'm guessing a negation of what I say here...), but in my opinion homicidal urges and the HGA don't seem to go together. Paul Foster Case of BOTA has stated that the Voice will never flatter you (ie. you are "chosen" and your killing spree would be "for the good of the collective"). Such thoughts are megalomaniacal and rooted in the little ego. I'm not saying you have such thoughts, but just for an example based on what you've said.
Of course you know Crowley's HGA said he was the prophet of the New Aeon and filled his head full of such violent imagery that he rejected it and left it in a drawer for a few years.
The view from Tiphareth is very much about other and surrender is probably the best thing. When you do surrender, do you feel peace or hopelessness? If you feel hopeless, what is it that feels unfulfilled? It is perhaps little ego winding you up in cycles and causing you to bash your head against the wall until you finally understand what the real problem is. In most traditions I've studied, it is basically suggested to view the world as a teacher and to treat resistance and enemies as friends showing you the chinks in your own armor.
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Greetings,
You are probably right with regard to the homicidal urges. To be more explicit, it feels, upon occasion, as if a black glove slides over my consciousness. That is to say, i still retain my conscience, however this other, vile, black consciousness is present. The closest thing i could compare it to would be the black spidey suit that attaches itself to peter parker... It's been suggested that this is a sort of doppleganger or even a tether of some sort to the klipothic realms. Whatever it is, its old.
Whether this be the root cause of my suffering i cant be sure, i do know that it manifests all manor of unsavory and negative feelings and is also capable of producing a continual euphoric sensation something ecstatic if thought of in certain way.
I have likened it to a thorn in my side to which their is no cure. A constant companion ever ready to help me capitulate in the worst way possible... -
it might help you a bit to meditate on the Book of Job and the whole Lord of the Darkness and the Light prayer you referred to before. This may because I am still shaking the vestiges off of my former Christian past, but I do feel that God/HGA will test you. Remember that Satan was once merely an accuser, under the jurisdiction of God to test people's faith, and presumably make them as gold.
"YHWH gave and YHWH has taken away; blessed be the name of YHWH"
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Frankly.. the entire experience is dismal. Whichever language, symbolism or tradition is used to describe it - i feel as though i've been an unwitting and unwilling participant in some, for lack of a better descriptor, recurrent cosmic drama... My sensibilities have been ruined by the intrusion, by the imposition of some seeming higher form of pseudo-intelligence.
Being constantly assaulted by individuals' thoughts and puerile expectations; understandings. Not to mention being made subject to an entire host of conflicting desires in a world entirely illusion seems to me, to be the height of stupidity. WHY in the Chaotic Void would anyone willingly sign up for this sort of ridiculous psycho/spiritual shenanigan is truly beyond me. I am wholly unworthy of such a grandiose theatric role...as this is certainly what it feels like. And, perhaps this is the point, or rather the conclusion one is supposed to arrive at?!
Thanks for the allowing the rant.
Jr.
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See, i can't even have an original thought/rant
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@Alrah said
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@Stag-Nation said
"See, i can't even have an original thought/rant"Lol. Oh, have a hug. (((((Stag-Nation))))).
"Thanks
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Stag,
I wrote a whole big long spiel, but I was not happy with it. I will try to come back and post something succinct. Hopefully, in the mean time others will give you some valuable input.
This sounds pollyannaish, but I'm going to say it anyway: try to think positive. And by that I also mean don't dwell on the negative.
Not to alarm you or anything, but... would anyone like to share advice about how to work with one's "demons?" There are a few books out there such as "Taming Your Gremlin" and "Uncle Ramsey's Little Book of Demons: The Positive Advantages of the Personification of Life's Problems," but there are also much more literal methods out there to control what are perceived as ACTUAL demons. By what you've said, it seems to me like you believe you are actually dealing with an intruding demonic force which literally possesses you and controls your actions.
If I were in your shoes, I know the first thing I would do is look for negativity-reversing practices. A typical Thelemic thing to do would probably be banishings and adorations. I don't know if you're really of a Thelemic bent or not because you haven't really said very much yet. I have found other practices to be very effective, but they're not anything I want to get into here. You can PM me if you want.
Best wishes for you... accepting negativity is important for healing, but that acceptance doesn't mean we have to act on negative urges. What I mean is, we don't have to beat ourselves up for negative thoughts or what we perceive to be personal failings. A lot of times, people have repressed issues and the guilt torments them until they snap and these issues appear as negative mental loops. There are a few different books on how to deal with these sorts of "demons" and you don't have to draw a pentagram on your floor or anything like that, either.
There's generally reasons for all sorts of negative desires, attitudes and behavior... we're all human, full of errors and idealism.
There's a lot of truth to the old saying "if you can't love yourself, who can you love?" My guru points to himself and says, "First, I take care of #1. Then, everything else falls into place." It sounds very much like the opposite of what he really is, which is quite simply the most amazing, miraculous and compassionate man I have ever had the pleasure to know personally.
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I edited that above post 3x. Hope Stag reads the last version. I am planning a 3-day retreat from tomorrow til Sunday, so if you don't hear from me... well, you'll be in my thoughts along with a bunch of other negativities I will be working with.
Happy New Year and may things turn around for you ASAP!
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@Stag-Nation said
"WHY in the Chaotic Void would anyone willingly sign up for this sort of ridiculous psycho/spiritual shenanigan is truly beyond me. I am wholly unworthy of such a grandiose theatric role...as this is certainly what it feels like. And, perhaps this is the point, or rather the conclusion one is supposed to arrive at?!"
To me, it sounds here like you're seeing that the idea this is "planned," as some believe, by your Higher Self (or whatever) for your entertainment, firsthand experiential knowledge and/or spiritual advancement is not something you find to be a very realistic proposition. I agree. My personal belief is that we are in this condition due to a very SIMPLE error, subtler than a hair's breadth, but gigantic in potential scope of error. Fortunately, this means it is also always there, under obscurations of ignorance, to be recognized in every moment forever and that means, eventually, when logic (karma) runs its course, it will be recognized.
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@Redd Fezz said
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Not to alarm you or anything, but... would anyone like to share advice about how to work with one's "demons?" "Maybe not what you had in mind, but I love the book "One Hundred Demons" by Lynda Barry.... it's about making art - she illustrates her inner demons....
Apparently she was inspired by a Japanese artist "Kuniyoshi Yokai Hyakkei - Kuniyoshi's One Hundred Images of Ghosts and Demons"
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Thanks Everyone,
For taking the time to offer friendly advice.
Mr. Fezz fret not I have no intention of harming anyone or thing... I just need to learn how to put a saddle on this wily goat. I haven't the foggiest about banishings but im sure that would be the proper action.I'm remarkably stubborn and foolish and my best friend whom I often look to for guidance has about as much emotional warmth as a cold steel plate-which I often resent. She's dreamy :l Back to the matter, I feel very isolated oftentimes which prompted me to seek some form of peer review; interaction.
I really do appreciate the discussion, thanks again.
I will just lurk for a while until i regain a comfortable perspective. -
I was very happy to offer whatever perhaps useless advice I could. I will be doing a Green Tara retreat starting tomorrow and if you want, you could probably link up with my practice since we have a connection. I will be involving you regardless, although not, like, directly... but there is always a link to everything and everyone, especially if it's recent. So, if you have any affinity for that sort of practice, the mantra is OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SVAHA and I will likely be chanting it for the next 72 hours give or take, so if you want to "hook up" you're more than welcome. Green Tara would very much help with your obstacles if you actually asked Her to from the heart.
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@Stag-Nation said
"my best friend whom I often look to for guidance has about as much emotional warmth as a cold steel plate-which I often resent."
It might just be the presentation. I am a motherfucker for all the right reasons, if you know what I mean... It's usually when I'm being "nice" that people get the wrong idea. That's okay most of the time, but for people you REALLY care about and especially if you KNOW what's going on there?... being "nice" doesn't cut it if "nice" means perpetuating their delusion. Life is short, man. (well, this particular life, anyway)
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I agree... Not a slave, but a ball bustin' 'perfect' mind. I wouldn't have her any other way - not that she could be. She's the iceing on my cake.
I'm the loose cannon.
Her entire dialectic hinges on the whole, 'Pity not the fallen' ideology. It should probably read, because they will get back
up one way or another.Edit:
'Loose Cannon' is definitely not to be understood in a literal sense. It's an onion.
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@Stag-Nation said
"I agree... Not a slave, but a ball bustin' 'perfect' mind. I wouldn't have her any other way - not that she could be. She's the iceing on my cake.
I'm the loose cannon.
Her entire dialectic hinges on the whole, 'Pity not the fallen' ideology. It should probably read, because they will get back
up one way or another.Edit:
'Loose Cannon' is definitely not to be understood in a literal sense. It's an onion.
"Maybe you are the 'loose cannon' in the canonical sense, but some wordplay works better in speech than it does in the written word. What I mean is, like, the Bible is the "official canon" and all the so-called 'heretical' scriptures could be considered the 'loose canon' (or lost canon) until such time as they are pieced together into a unified whole (which some people seem to be already doing).
What I mean is this: maybe you think you've already found your place, but in fact it is not working for you. In practice, you're stuck in a rut. This is what I meant when I talked about resistance from others being friends helping you to expose the chinks in your armor. There is a whole study about the psycho-physical muscular armor we wear, but unfortunately you only tend to find info on this in random NLP books and stuff of that nature, which frankly, after a long period of trial and error with such modern age hokum, I have completely given up on. But, it is clear that people's bodies conform to what's going on in their minds. The scaredy cat walks with a hunch so that he almost looks like a question mark from the side. His whole life is interrogative: "what if they don't like me?!"
If your woman is really how you say she is, then she is different from me (Nietzschean, perhaps?) Charity doesn't always lead to resentment; in fact, I'd say it usually does not. Political grandstanding, gladhanding and useless charity meant to put on a good show but still keep the oppressed oppressed is what causes resentment. Pity is also not an emotion to be turned on or off. In non-psychopaths and non-sociopaths, pity is a natural emotion tied to compassion. If it weren't for compassion, your mother would have left you in a field to die shortly after giving birth to you. If not for compassion, very little would get done. Also, some people are truly, truly, damn weak and in exceedingly difficult conditions. As my father used to joke, "don't judge a man until you walk a mile in his mocassins." Some of the conditions people live in I wouldn't wish on a dog.
Liber Al can be read many ways and it is up to each man for himself to interpret it. I believe in charitable and compassionate action, personally. But, if someone is screwing up and has screwheaded ideas, I'm going to point it out and not merely look the other way. If I didn't, that would be what Chogyam Trungpa called "idiot compassion."