LBRP Questions
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Thanks Mr. Eshelman! Much clear now.
How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?
Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?
Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?[OFF TOPIC]
I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color"
The color are the King Color Scale, right?
Has to be taken as a reference?
Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?
Why is it organized so graphically?
[/OFF TOPIC]Thanks.
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@MMe said
"How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?"
Just see them in flame in front of you. (I'm not sure what the question is, exactly. I suspect I'm missing something here.)
"Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?"
What Hebrew letters are you talking about? The only way this is usually recommended is as a part of the process of vibrating Divine Names - that one see the Divine Name spelled in front of one, inhale it and be filled with it, as a setup to its vibration.
"Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?"
Of Hebrew letters? Neither. Just simple flame, not particularized to anything.
"I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color" The color are the King Color Scale, right?"
Yes.
"Has to be taken as a reference?"
"Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?"
The main point is: Where on the 12-step chromatic scale does it fall. - BTW, Aleph isn't so much a paler color - it's exactly the same color! - but on the Tree it is being more saturated with the light of Kether. (Same for Gimel in comparison to Mem.)
"Why is it organized so graphically?"
I had a reason. (People who have undergone a particular stage or process will understand the reason.)
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"How can I include the visualization of the Hebrew letters during the LBRP?"Just see them in flame in front of you. (I'm not sure what the question is, exactly. I suspect I'm missing something here.)
"Are to be visualize during the whole rite, or at particular moments such as the Invocation of the Archangels?"
What Hebrew letters are you talking about? The only way this is usually recommended is as a part of the process of vibrating Divine Names - that one see the Divine Name spelled in front of one, inhale it and be filled with it, as a setup to its vibration.
"Colors: elemental or flashing or elemental + flashing?"
Of Hebrew letters? Neither. Just simple flame, not particularized to anything.
"Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?
example:
**chanting ** AH - DOH - NAH - YEE
letter Alef - Daleth - Nun - Yod
color yellow - green - blue/green - yellow/green@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"I saw your table "A Particular Distribution of the 22 Hebrew letters by color" The color are the King Color Scale, right?"Yes.
"Has to be taken as a reference?"
"It was refer as a color reference(yellow/bright pale yellow), nuances and so on...
@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"Because if is the King Color Scale why Aleph and Beth is using the same color, Yellow, instead of using bright pale yellow for Aleph. Color nuances are not so important?"The main point is: Where on the 12-step chromatic scale does it fall. - BTW, Aleph isn't so much a paler color - it's exactly the same color! - but on the Tree it is being more saturated with the light of Kether. (Same for Gimel in comparison to Mem.)"
I understand.
@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"Why is it organized so graphically?"I had a reason. (People who have undergone a particular stage or process will understand the reason.)"
Ok.
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@MMe said
"Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?"You can do that if it helps you visualize. Generally the colors are used that way, but, yes, it's a useful technique while learning the notes.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"Because I would include the correlation **letter **= musical note = color:
Chanting the syllable and in the meanwhile visualize the letter with the proper color, I'm wrong?"You can do that if it helps you visualize. Generally the colors are used that way, but, yes, it's a useful technique while learning the notes."
Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?
The letters Simple or Flaming?
In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?
And then after chanting the last letter the whole word?The last one, for now
:
The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?@Jim Eshelman said
"You can do that if it helps you visualize."
I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?
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@MMe said
"Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?"
In the generic lesser ritual? No. - You see the elemental colors of the quarters in the formulations of the archangels, or course. But, in the generic lesser ritual (that is, not particularized to any element), the pentagrams are all drawn in the same pale blue astral light, and there is no elemental differentiation of the Divine Names.
Is that what you meant? Or am I missing your meaning?
This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following.
"In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?"
If you are only using the Hebrew letters to help you learn the notes, then, no, it was just a guide and not really related to the ritual - just a "practice sheet" for you.
If you are using the letters as usualy taught, you would have inhaled them and they would be gone.
"The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?"
Magical weapons are (essentially) never held point down.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You can do that if it helps you visualize."I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?"
Correct.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"Ok, but I need to visualize the elemental or, as in your table, the flashing color or elemental + flashing?"In the generic lesser ritual? No. - You see the elemental colors of the quarters in the formulations of the archangels, or course. But, in the generic lesser ritual (that is, not particularized to any element), the pentagrams are all drawn in the same pale blue astral light, and there is no elemental differentiation of the Divine Names.
Is that what you meant? Or am I missing your meaning?"
Yes, is what I mean. I risked to get a good mistake...
@Jim Eshelman said
"This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following. "
I'm starting with "Techniques Of High Magic"(Skinner/King) then put aside for your "776 1/2", Black Pearl, In the Continum and Regardie's "Middle Pillar".
@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"In the same word, finished to chanting/visualize the letter and go to the next, I need to visualize also the previous one?"If you are only using the Hebrew letters to help you learn the notes, then, no, it was just a guide and not really related to the ritual - just a "practice sheet" for you.
If you are using the letters as usualy taught, you would have inhaled them and they would be gone."
I thought that adding other correlations such as color and musical notes, the rite would be much more effective.
Therefore: no colors, only letter in flame(what color? Pale blue as the pentagram?) + musical note for chanting, right?
@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
"The weapons of the archangels are to be visualize upward, downward or doesn't matter?"Magical weapons are (essentially) never held point down."
Thanks, very useful information.
@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"You can do that if it helps you visualize."I see that is not a common practice doing so, at least for LBRP, right?"
Correct."
Ok, I undestand.
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@MMe said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following. "I'm starting with "Techniques Of High Magic"(Skinner/King) then put aside for your "776 1/2", Black Pearl, In the Continum and Regardie's "Middle Pillar"."
That explans why I couldn't figure out what you were doing - you're doing everybody! <vbg>
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@MMe said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"This might be easier if you mentioned which of the many printed instructions for the Pentagram Ritual you are following. "I'm starting with "Techniques Of High Magic"(Skinner/King) then put aside for your "776 1/2", Black Pearl, In the Continum and Regardie's "Middle Pillar"."
That explans why I couldn't figure out what you were doing - you're doing everybody! <vbg>"
From what I understand it, except for the Thelemic addition, are all the same ritual.
"776 1/2" and "Black Pearl" almost identical,
"In the Continuum" delightful the explanation of Soror Meral,
Regardie's "The Middle Pillar" version also identical, except for the astral expansion before the Qabalistic Cross.
There are so much difference?I do the simple, basic version.
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*I continue here the discussion about the images of Archangels to not dirty the thread about the The Star Ruby *
@Jim Eshelman said
"These are elemental archangels. Even though archangels of the same name serve as sephirothic and planetary archangels, that isn't their role here.
Especially at the beginning, and practically thereafter, my recommendation is to keep it simple."
Ok, so I need only to look at row 11, 23, 31 and 32 bis of 776 1/2, right?
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Yes.
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"* All the visualizations are to be done in first person? For example visualizing Kether I find myself in third person view, like seeing the whole scene from outside."
I'm not sure I understand the question, but I'll give it a try:
"The "Kether" in question is not the Absolute Abstract Kether, but a sphere of white light a few inches above the crown of your head. Visualize this from within your normal point of view (wherever that is in your body).
"@Jim: Fyi. First person is like playing a FPS games, like COD or Counter Strike, looking through the eyes of the character and only seeing your hands and gun in front of you on the screen. Just like to experimental cameras they are testing on cops in some states. I don't quite understand his question either, so I think he is referring to Third person view, seeing yourself from 10ft overhead behind or in front of you, like most RPG games. Is that a problem? I visualize things in Third person. Would it imply looking at oneself as a stranger? Not comfortable as how one see's them self?
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@MMe said
"In the Qabalistic Cross when I finished drawing it, became natural for me to assume the whole figure, I become the cross, as usually done for the Godform. Am I doing it wrong?"
I'm not authority, but that is what I imagined the visualization was "supposed" to be. I think looking at it from the perspective of right or wrong in a lot of cases is something that can stop progress (aside from the basic structure of the ritual described). The approach that I like to lean towards is to do it, document it or note it mentally, and move on. If one is persistent, then what is "right" or "wrong" for you will become self-evident. This is all supposing there isn't a line of teaching you are following formally that gives different direction.
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@MMe said
"In the Qabalistic Cross when I finished drawing it, became natural for me to assume the whole figure, I become the cross, as usually done for the Godform. Am I doing it wrong?"
Nothing wrong with it at all. Not necesssarily "standard," but a perception that arises naturally from the other visualizations.
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Hi all,
This is my first post.
I've been practicing the LBRP for awhile now and I've found it is much stronger when I use my left hand. FYI, I am left handed. Is doing this with my left hand a problem?
Thanks,
Peacedog
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No.
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A very noob questions:
The Kether center is situated just over the forehead or a little behind?
In the Qabalistic Cross the shaft of white light that goes from Kether to Malkuth is the same as the MP? Is to be visualized as the latter? Slightly in front of me and don't within me, right?
The hexagram is 2d or 3d? Should have a little thickness/depth?
In another post you said@Jim Eshelman said
"No. The pentagrams are drawn as if on at an infinite distance - one of the reason for keeping one's arm perfectly straight through the whole process (so that proportions remain the same at all distances)."
Also in the invocation of the Archangels the arms are to be full straight?
@Jim Eshelman said
"The archangels are thus within them (as all things are), at the perimeter of one's area of operation."
The Archangels and the pentagrams are to be visualized fused together?
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@Dar said
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@MMe said
"Also in the invocation of the Archangels the arms are to be full straight?"Why? Have your Archangels ever complained about your less than straight arms? Hmmm?"
I know my questions are silly
, but I prefer to be a honest ignorant than something else...and ask questions, even the most stupid.
But your answer is interesting, thanks. -
93,
"Also in the invocation of the Archangels the arms are to be full straight?
"That's correct. There are various explanations for this that could be offered, but a simple one is that it emphasizes the movement of energy or light to the extremes of your own aura.
"The Archangels and the pentagrams are to be visualized fused together?"
No, definitely not. The visualizations should be maintained as separate things, occurring on separate planes.
When I utter the final phrase of the invocatory segment ("For about me flames the pentagram... etc.") I don't hold the image of the Archangels in mind at all. They've been called in, or you might say "have been noticed yet again," and they remain in position. That last part before going once again into "Attah-Aiwass-Malkuth" is a point when you see your own being as central within the arrangement of the pentagrams, and dominated or lit by a central hexagram.
93 93/93,
Edward