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Emotions and Magick

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Magick
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  • J Offline
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    Jim Eshelman
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #2

    The pathological character of his emotions is likely to be more of a barrier than the seeming absence of them.

    But this also depends on what you mean by magick. My answer would be somewhat different if we were talking about generating phenomena or if we were talkikng about personal (spiritual) evolution.

    In either case, though, the benefit comes from having full access to one's emotions. What one does with them is a bit different in each case.

    Realize, though, that "full access" to one's emotions isn't all that common among people generally regarded as mature, healthy adults. There is a learning process, even a healing process, for many. Your friend shouldn't let this get in his way. Instead, it should be one of the things true about him that dictates exactly what HIS way is.

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    TOHPA
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #3

    Thank you Mr. Eshelman. That was clarifying and I find your last paragraph very insightful for my friend's case; I Hope he will find it also.

    Regarding Magick, I was referring to a path spiritual development. I understand the effects of Magick and the alteration of perception as having an emotional infrastructure, influencing also the subconscious mind. Unfortunately this is just my subjective way of understanding it. Since existence is pure joy and the sorrows are but shadows, I conceive the expression of shadows in such a rigid way (as my friend's disorder) as an obstacle which seperates one from his/her true self and the expression thereof.

    @Dar said

    "I would be happy and possibly more enlightened if this thread and it's participants laxed lyrical on the topics raised here.
    "

    Uhm, what's "laxed lyrical"? I'm sorry but English isn't my first language 😕

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    Avshalom Binyamin
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #4

    "I would be happy and possibly more enlightened if this thread and it's participants laxed lyrical on the topics raised here."

    Do you want us to lax lyrical
    Or did you mean for us to wax?
    Poems can be satirical
    If we know how to relax

    Emotions are like a kettle
    Set on the range's coil
    Electric flames will heat the metal
    And the water starts to boil

    And when you make a cuppa tea
    But are really doing something else
    The kettle screams like a tantrum-throwing, psychotic banshee
    While you're in the other room and you have to run into the room in panic mode and stub your toe on that chest, and pretty soon you're howling too!

    So, use your kettle frequently
    But don't let it caterwaul
    If we're going to have a cuppa tea
    We need hot water after all

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  • R Offline
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    RobertAllen
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #5

    I tend to put more stock in sensations, which are not the same things as emotions!

    If you use emotions to track what is important to people around you, and to yourself, they are useful; if you think an emotion is proof of something more, you are fooling yourself—strong emotion proves nothing.

    Sensations on the other hand are not emotions, but they are experiences! They can be anything from that weird shiver that runs up the spine, to the experience of stepping in a pile of warm horse shit in your socks.

    You don't even need a physical stimulus to have a sensation. You can imagine that cold shower, or the spider in your hair, and the sensation is there in some measure.

    Rule of thumb: sensations will produce emotions.

    For this reason it is better to focus on having sensations and let emotions take care of themselves.

    Emotions prove nothing! At best they are indications of those things in your life that have personal value—this is not a small thing, it's just not what most people are willing to accept about the limits of their feelings to explain the world to themselves.

    EDIT, just clarified a thought, I hope...

    Love and Will

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    Frater 639
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #6

    I'm noooooo poet!!! But, let's try this:
    Haiku!

    My apologies to Av, Dar, and Veronica...our resident Poets. 😀

    Emotions are Fun
    They separate from Silence
    Love and Not are One

    We feel the divide
    We love what we do not have
    Wanting to collide

    Together is where
    we will always want to be
    Needing Two to share.

    👼

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  • T Offline
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    TOHPA
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #7

    I don't like haikus
    I wanna talk 'bout Magick
    haikus piss me off
    😆

    But seriously, although a ritual is based on sensation, the aren't the final results of it more coherent in emotional terms?

    My biggest trouble with specific and long rituals is that:

    1. I can't easily reproduce the same consciousness and emotional effect with a precise ritual.
    2. I can't keep this effect for too long. I guess that's why we must "Enflame ourselves in prayer", in order to make the results of a Magickal operation permanent.
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  • F Offline
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    Frater 639
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #8

    @TOHPA said

    "But seriously, although a ritual is based on sensation, the aren't the final results of it more coherent in emotional terms?"

    Ritual is more than sensation. Final results? In the context of ritual, you are going to skew your "results" based on the projection of those "results".

    "For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."

    @TOHPA said

    "My biggest trouble with specific and long rituals is that:

    1. I can't easily reproduce the same consciousness and emotional effect with a precise ritual.
    2. I can't keep this effect for too long. I guess that's why we must "Enflame ourselves in prayer", in order to make the results of a Magical operation permanent."

    These seem to be projections that can skew the "results" of any ritual.

    Empty the Cup! Results will follow.

    Expectations (intellectual constructs) will inhibit this. The best way to to rid oneself of the intellectual projections of ritual is repetition...as the Work is cumulative. "Enflaming ourselves in prayer" helps us bypass our intellectual projections, amongst other things...

    EDIT: I think I sounded like I was avoiding the question, so I wanted to add...

    In ritual, the "results" are not just coherent in emotional terms...they are coherent in MANY terms. This includes many "planes"...not just emotional ones (i.e. the intellectual plane, the creative plane, etc.).

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    TOHPA
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #9

    Although I agree with what you said, I wouldn't consider these as projections, but mostly as patterns I have observed. That's why I stated previously that this is just a subjective point of view.

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    Frater 639
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #10

    @TOHPA said

    "Although I agree with what you said, I wouldn't consider these as projections, but mostly as patterns I have observed. That's why I stated previously that this is just a subjective point of view."

    In this context, I meant "projections" in the way that they are like "expectations". Patterns that I have observed usually contributes to my expectations, based on my subjective pattern apprehension.

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    Danica
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #11

    TOHPA, have you read Dion Fortune's "Mysical Qabalah"?
    chapter pertaining to Netzach there can perhaps be of use to you regarding magical use of emotions...

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  • T Offline
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    TOHPA
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #12

    Yes, I have.

    I think you might be referrring to the following passage:

    "Tree there is a flow down and up the positive and
    negative aspects of our own subjective levels of consciousness, whereby the spirit
    inspires mind, and mind directs the emotions, and the emotions form the etheric double,
    and the etheric double inoulds the physical vehicle, which is the "earth" of the circuit."

    And this makes it more perplexed for the case of my friend I mentioned.
    But I think Jim's reply was very helpful.

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    Danica
    replied to TOHPA on last edited by
    #13

    I was reffering to the whole chapter on Netzach!

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