Liber Al Cipher 666 Tablet / English Qabalah
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Dar 93!
Thanks for coming to check it out! Yes, I know I'm not a scholar lol, I do sometimes stumple around writing wise. My apologies for any bad form!
I THINK I follow you in your suggestions. I need to look at it carefully and scribble a bit. It is interesting about the missing paths.
Although this system is based upon the paths (cards) I have not delved too deeply into the Tree of Life aspect, and for example, how this works regarding it. I think it be very interesting to examine the various blendings of these paths and what that looks like etc.
As I said before, I'm slow! I really have to sit and concentrate and mull it over for a while before I get something out of it.
I appreciate any feedback, so thank you!
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Here is a simplified breakdown:
- Take the 22 Trumps divided into macrocosm & microcosm; pasting right to left & top to bottom: (line drawn step)
___12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21- Attribute the English to these "sheets" generating 26 to this Tarot order; they become 13x13:(circle squared step)
Uploaded at Picoodle.com
(extra four are the base elements/suits)
- Add above "right to left and top to bottom" to generate Tablet mixing 5&6 symbolically. Creates 169 squared tablet.(and Abrahadabra step)
Done.
This first tabulation is all we need to construct the Thelemic Tablet. It gives us two Tarot attributes for each square, and the division of cross & 4 solar quarters; gives each mixed elemental attributes.
I believe this could be another meaning for the "first half of the equation".
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Another thought upon the word "paste", and of this whole scheme is that of sex magick.
Why "paste"? Paste is suggestive of semen, the white milky substance that unites or blends two halves. The Tablet blends, adheres these pages together in a symbolic marriage, (think Temperance/"Art") Paste also suggests the alchemical universal solvent of Art. It also hints at art, and creativity, something we use mostly with art on projects. So the use of the word "paste" is significant because it gives us the idea of a process involving addition in a creative and new way, something simple, and involving art (Tarot). The words "paste the sheets" also has a rather sexual connotation as well. "Bed in working" takes on new meaning, in terms of this whole idea; as does "unite by thine art".
The whole Tablet, with each square uniting two cards, is sexual. It is a joining of these symbols; the whole Temple is an orgy!
It is well known that there are sexual techniques using the Enochian system, why should this be any different? It should be even more expected in this case! No doubt, this new Thelemic style Enochian system employs sex magic.
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Although there is a lot I feel sure about with this theory; there still are areas - subjects im not sure about as well.
Of course as I learn, I try to use that knowledge to help solve these remaining questions. However, your welcome to try and solve them as well. Here they are:
- IF we take Abrahadabra as using the English letters and cross reference them to the Hebrew connected through the Trumps; can we say:
A = 0 Fool - Aleph 1 = Spirit
B = 1 Magus - Beth 2 = Air
R =17 Star - Heh 5 = Fire
H = 7 Chariot - Cheth 8 = Water
D = 3 Empress - Daleth 4 = Earth(Interesting side note. Card numbers of these 5 = 28, same as reduced Eng. for whole word. Heb. total 20.)
This is my guess at elemental attributions for these 5 diverse letters of the Word.
What do you think?
- I believe these four solar gates are to be made into four seperate (space marks?) Tablets. The central cross, as done in the regular Enochian system is then turned into a Tablet of Union, to be placed upon the altar. However, it is possible this is ONE whole Tablet to be set up in the East, as our "Kiblah", perhaps a symbolic Boelskin? It does after all symbolically represent a "house", & has the "name" (cross) 418.
Would it be "one" or "many"?
(Of course, giving your opinion is simply assuming hypothetically this whole theory is correct.)
I still havent went into the subject of the letters upon the squares of this Tablet. I will if there is truly an interest, but so far I havent seen too much of a responce. I feel reluctant to simply waste my time with all these details if theres no interest.
Anyway, I admire many of you on this forum, and would appreciate any honest feedback. If for example, you find any aspect of my theory in error, or based on wrong information etc., or may be simply misguided in some way, please feel free to point it out! If this IS a house of cards, built on a shaky foundation, I would seriously appreciate the constructive criticism.
I realize the negative knee jerk reaction to any would be "cipher solution" etc. It does seem to be a Thelemic habit, every Thelemite has a possible theory it seems! But, this is a way we learn too, and having that objectivity is a great tool to realize weakness/strengths.
My arguement is how many theories can so quickly produce such well known, clear-cut recognizable numbers as 666 & 418? In such an additional qabalistically significant manner - such as 111 x 6? This also creates a workable system, using TWO of the subjects closely related to Liber Legis. It brings so many aspects together into a coherent, easy to understand whole. These are the reasons I feel it has merit.
I have seen interesting patterns found, even generated out of every day gibberish (in a round about, haphazzard fashion), but I challenge anyone to show a way to generate these two great Thelemic numbers like this theory can!
It seems every time I post this, everyone clams up lol! I saw plenty give Dar some advice, and or criticism; id love some of that feedback too. Thanks again!
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I like the standards you set at the beginning. They attempt to confine the incredible creative and associative ability of the unconscious mind to the end result you seek.
Once we get to the elaboration of the mathmatical tables, you end up making choices about how to combine, reduce, mirror, etc. This is where subjectivity creeps in. For instance, the standard method of creating a table leaves the original row and column intact. It doesn't change them. Horizontally, the 0-13, and vertically, the 13-25 would remain in place. The manipulation of the original row and column, then their reduction and mirroring is ...a bit of mental art. And that's where it becomes subjective and unconfirmable.
I am becoming more and more convinced that each of these solutions, and the verses that seem to encourage one to go through such manipulations, functions more like a Rorschach Test than anything else.
As the unconscious mind elaborates on the original premise, these subjetive artistic decisions are shaped by all the other impressions about ourselves, our lives, and occult "doctrine" that we have deeply impressed upon our own unconscious. As the artistic decisions occur, what we tend to see is a reflection of the unconscious contents of the qabalistic artist. In short, it reveals more about what* we believe and think *about ourselves, our lives, and occult "doctrine" than anything else.
Yours tends to bend back toward confirmation of the Law and of the importance of 666.
It is no small accomplishment for you, or anyone else for that matter, to achieve this experience of the incredible possibilities of your internal genius. For many, it seems to represent their first full encounter with the depth and vast possibilities of their own unconscious powers and confirms the possibility of information coming to them seemingly from outside themselves.
However, as I said, the information generated generally seems to reflect much more of what is going on in the psychological depths of an individual than anything that could be considered absolute, universal, or objective truth.
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@Bereshith said
"I like the standards you set at the beginning. They attempt to confine the incredible creative and associative ability of the unconscious mind to the end result you seek.
Once we get to the elaboration of the mathmatical tables, you end up making choices about how to combine, reduce, mirror, etc. This is where subjectivity creeps in. For instance, the standard method of creating a table leaves the original row and column intact. It doesn't change them. Horizontally, the 0-13, and vertically, the 13-25 would remain in place. The manipulation of the original row and column, then their reduction and mirroring is ...a bit of mental art. And that's where it becomes subjective and unconfirmable.
I am becoming more and more convinced that each of these solutions, and the verses that seem to encourage one to go through such manipulations, functions more like a Rorschach Test than anything else.
As the unconscious mind elaborates on the original premise, these subjetive artistic decisions are shaped by all the other impressions about ourselves, our lives, and occult "doctrine" that we have deeply impressed upon our own unconscious. As the artistic decisions occur, what we tend to see is a reflection of the unconscious contents of the qabalistic artist. In short, it reveals more about what* we believe and think *about ourselves, our lives, and occult "doctrine" than anything else.
Yours tends to bend back toward confirmation of the Law and of the importance of 666.
It is no small accomplishment for you, or anyone else for that matter, to achieve this experience of the incredible possibilities of your internal genius. For many, it seems to represent their first full encounter with the depth and vast possibilities of their own unconscious powers and confirms the possibility of information coming to them seemingly from outside themselves.
However, as I said, the information generated generally seems to reflect much more of what is going on in the psychological depths of an individual than anything that could be considered absolute, universal, or objective truth."
93 Bereshith,
Thank you for your help and input! Very true! I agree of course we have an unconcious process that allows us to unlock these sorts of fancy solutions, however if they are products that have worth or objective use (i.e. Liber Tav) dont they justify themselves?
I hardly see "justification" for Liber Tavs format, (in terms of pure mechanics) bieng any more pertinent than this one. I guess what Im saying is, arent ALL "solutions" a product of these same things your citing anyway? What is the process or a solution example that wouldnt? Isnt our intuitition or higher selves directing us? "Reason is a lue" etc., I think the real measure is the validity of the result.
I dont know if this matters, but the only enumeration required is the first which does stay in place. That is 0 through 12 (not 13) & 13 down 25. The "mirrored" part is, I believe an extra hidden confirnation for the reduced being the "values". I disagree it is easy to arrive at such numbers in such a clear significant way. Also, the mirrored trick, I believed is a "key" to confirm by these recognizable numbers the inherent divisions. How do we know its not just "me"? I think THAT could be argued that the result is alone its objective justification.
666 "foursquare"? 418 in a cross? Deriving 666 by 6 lines of 111? 666 being a total of a 36 square quater? All from mirroring and reducing?
Again, your obviously an intelligent man, and I respect your feedback. I will look into what you say however. Just pointing out what MY mind argues. I want to make sure I understand what your saying, and "get it".
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@Daegal said
"93 Bereshith,
Thank you for your help and input! Very true! I agree of course we have an unconcious process that allows us to unlock these sorts of fancy solutions, however if they are products that have worth or objective use (i.e. Liber Tav) dont they justify themselves? "
Yes, they justify themselves if the product is of practical use and does not depend on others being required to accept the subjective choices of the process of discovery. Liber Tav creates a tarot layout that has great practical applications for meditation on the interconnectedness of the tarot, whether or not its source was Liber AL. Paul Foster Case presents a similar layout (though reversed - which I'm not sure matters since the layout is symmetrical) and does not credit any authority for its production other than tradition (that I recall).
"I hardly see "justification" for Liber Tavs format, (in terms of pure mechanics) thann this one. "
What meditation or practical application to magic does it provide for others that is not required to be based in acceptance of the method of its discovery?
"I guess what Im saying is, arent ALL "solutions" a product of these same things your citing anyway? "
Absolutely.
"What is the process or a solution example that wouldnt?"
It would have to achieve the solution by methods that do not require the unquestioning acceptance of another individual's subjective leaps of intuition and association.
"I dont know if this matters, but the only enumeration required is the first which does stay in place. That is 0 through 12 (not 13) & 13 down 25. The "mirrored" part is, I believe an extra hidden confirnation for the reduced being the "values". I disagree it is easy to arrive at such numbers in such a clear significant way. "
I didn't say it was easy. I said it was an activation of, and an accomplishment of, your unconscious genius. I said it was no small accomplishment to activate it or receive its creative response.
"666 "foursquare"? 418 in a cross? Deriving 666 by 6 lines of 111? 666 being a total of a 36 square quater? All from mirroring and reducing?"
Yes, but with no* logical *justification for the mirroring and reducing except that it ends up resulting in such things. That your mind discovered this is a work of art and genius. Does that seem so small to you? Must it be objectively confirmable by others for it to be a meaningful and significant demonstration of your genius by you, for you? It's only when we start claiming that our solution is obvious, final, and authoritative for everyone that it becomes necessary to apply the rules of rational methodology and objectivity. If we make no such claims, then it still remains that wonderful, mysterious interaction and demonstration of your own genius by you, for you.
"Again, your obviously an intelligent man, and I respect your feedback. I will look into what you say however. Just pointing out wgat MY mind argues.
93 93/93"
Absolutely understandable.
Love under Will.
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Aha! I get it! Ok, thank you Bereshith. I think I finally understand! Your smarter than the average bear I see lol.
Ok, taking it now as a purely personal system, could you give me your opinion on my attributions of elements to the 5 letters of Abrahadabra? IF going by my idea of the cards shown? Id appreciate any advice!
Thank you!
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Bereshith! One last question that came to me! A possible arguement; could we be throwing the perverbial baby out with the bathwater? Assuming personal, unjustified, or erroneous ideas lead to a valid result, does that really matter?
Would Crowley have thrown out the "AL" key had Achad said he arrived at it by playing scrabble?
How can anyone legitamately use these "keys" (clues) such as the "line drawn" and "circle squared" by NOT using intuitive interpretation with a solution? Their symbols after all, meant to provoke inspiration. We may all react or think of different ideas based on them.
Maybe these words, chance shapes, drawn symbols, and "the number & the words" could be meant to "strangely" or uniquely inspire a particular individual? Are we perhaps putting to much importance on HOW we arrive at a solution, rather than that solutions validity itself?
After all, maybe that is what "success is thy proof" means? Otherwise, we may make the reverse mistake, taking a wrong solution as having objective truth based on a convincing origin.
I dont know, just a thought. Still I get your points, and appreciate your thoughts.
Love under will
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@Bereshith said
"Well, it's a simplified analogy, but if a person came to you and said "Eureka! I've got it! 4+55=666!" how would you react?"
Your missing my point. Sorry I didnt make it more clear.
Your mistaking an illogical process or method for arriving at a result. Im saying couldnt a verse or symbol inspire an IDEA for a method or process that yields a valid result?
For example, to address your issue with no justification for reducing, and mirroring this graph; could we not allow for "paste the sheets right to left and top to bottom" to mean several things? Or inspire the IDEA of each side "top", reverse "bottom" & "left" to "right" being this mirroring? Taking the meaning as a reversal also?
The "circle squared" inspiring the IDEA for 22 plus 4 = 26 & english? Also the suggesting addition of these four sides, as visually described as a cross? The glyph is interpreted by ME, inspiring a METHOD resulting in a valid solution.
Hope that explains it a bit better. My apologies for not being very articulate! Lol
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@Bereshith said
"
@Bereshith said
"Yes, they justify themselves if the product is of practical use and does not depend on others being required to accept the subjective choices of the process of discovery."
"Wait a minute. This isnt making much sense to me now.
How can we exclude a solution simply because others would be required to accept the subjective choices of its originator?
If thats the criteria, it would basically be impossible for any solution to meet the requirement. That may be possible in fields such as science etc., but magick is an art as well, very subjective material no?
These symbols we leap from making subjective choices can inspire specific process that themselves are justified.
Liber Legis is of course very personal, individual, how the verses strike me - what they inspire is personal. You dont have to understand, nor agree how one arrives at a particular summit, but if he end up at that summit another may understand & verify his position.
I can not dictate HOW I believe a verse or symbol should move you, or inspire you. Nor can I dictate the validity of your particular inspiration, regardless if "correct" or not. One may get a vision of Nuit from a symbol of Hadit, but if the vision itself is of universal worth and use, does it matter?
Perhaps these subjective choices are the subjective "keys" that open up meaning for an individual leading to a very objective solution.
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Subjective choices:
A. Taking the "sheets" to be the Tarot.
Someone has to make a subjective choice to what these "sheets" are. How can anyone avoid this? Besides, my idea is the same as others far greater than myself in knowledge.
B. Taking "right to left and top to bottom" as outline of a graph. How is that unreasonable, if not perfectly logical?
C. Interpreting the SYMBOL of a circle with a cross inside as ROTA (Tarot 22), & 4 elements. Also it inspiring the idea of adding (even reducing) the "circle" of cards.
D. Why couldnt it be taken as legitimate to have "Abrahadabra" in this context suggest uniting the 5 & 6 divisions of these cards or "circle squared"?
C. Following logically the graph outline suggested, why is it unjustified to add these cards?
D. Why isnt it enough justification to reduce and mirror this graph outline simply because all the above led me to try? Or that the words "right to left and top to bottom" gave ME a further idea of reflecting each side? Or the word "behold" to investigate?
How are the above personal inspirations that I derived from the "keys" given (and for a reason) reason to reject the results I obtain, that further fit verses? I.e. "foursquare, mystic, wonderful, the number of the man (666), and the name of thy house 418".
A Tablet foursquare 666, and cross 418, inspired BY "keys" given in Liber Al, unjustified because it would ask others to accept HOW I came to those inpirations for my methods?
Doesnt make sense, and precludes many others ideas arrived at the same way as well. Magick IS subjective.
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"How can we exclude a solution simply because others would be required to accept the subjective choices of its originator?
"Begs the question of what a solution is.
It's like saying, "How can we exlude a mathematical formula just because it doesn't make any sense unless you're a Christian?"
If I have to be Christian for a mathematical formula to make sense, it isn't a mathematical formula.
If I have to place faith in the person who solved a riddle instead of being able understand it, I have no business giving importance to riddles.
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@Bereshith said
"
"How can we exclude a solution simply because others would be required to accept the subjective choices of its originator?
"Begs the question of what a solution is.
It's like saying, "How can we exlude a mathematical formula just because it doesn't make any sense unless you're a Christian?"
If I have to be Christian for a mathematical formula to make sense, it isn't a mathematical formula.
If I have to place faith in the person who solved a riddle instead of being able understand it, I have no business giving importance to riddles."
A solution is of course the answer to a problem. In this case, the answer to the riddles hidden in Liber Al, specifically the secret of the pasting of the sheets, and the English Qabalah. In addition making sense to many other mysterious verses, that point to a hidden answer.
Im not sure I get your analogy, the "mathmatical formula" aka my theory (method), doesnt require a change in belief systems. Your a Thelemite. Im a Thelemite. You understand the fundamental concepts of Qabalah, and Thelemic and magical theory and techniques, as I do, and probably better.
Therefore, this does not require one to abandon "Thelemic" or "magical" reason or points of view etc. But simply to accept the individual inspiration that LED to a process (formula) that further leads to a reasonable answer.
Do you feel, besides the subjective choices, that the system/theory itself is flawed or unworkable somehow? That IT alone, forgetting about HOW it was derived, has no merit or worth? If so, how or what are your reasons?
Otherwise, I am stumped how you justify rejecting ANY solution that is valid, simply based on how particular symbols influenced another.
Your not placing faith in a person. Of course Awaiss etc., works through us, directing us. IF a solution comes, its not from that personality or person, but as you said, thier Higher Genius or HGA, right? Wouldnt ANY solution come from a person? Look at Frater Achad! You accept AL as the universal key to the Book of the Law dont you?
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@Bereshith said
"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.93 93/93
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@Daegal said
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@Bereshith said
"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.93 93/93"
Well, I can agree with that, so we probably just kind of verbally missed each other toward the end there.
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@Bereshith said
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@Daegal said
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@Bereshith said
"Hmm... spend some time with other people's "solutions" and come up with your own
criteria."I have, and my criteria are listed as you stated and liked. Thats why I qualify it as a "valid" solution, believing it a reasonable and workable
system/formula, even IF personal.93 93/93"
Well, I can agree with that, so we probably just kind of verbally missed each other toward the end there.
"93 Bereshith,
Thank you. Yes, I agree, as I state at the beginning, its up to every individual to ultimately decide. Im not here to "declare" anything other than a possible solutuon.
My "argument" was simply on the assertion any solution that "requires one to accept anothers subjective choices" should be tossed out.
I was qualifying a "valid" & reasonable/plausable solution as still viable REGARDLESS of how the symbols etc., inspired them.
IF a technique unfolds from that inspiration - that is valid in its own right, yielding a plausable answer, it should be condidered.
I feel, this idea here is of that caliber.
However, I whole heartedly agree with you, one should only accept what they understand, and use descretion.
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