I'm going through the experience of the Abyss...
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All,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
My initiation has taken a new turn - or to use a more correct expression - it has intensified. I can't pray anymore... Yes, you heard me! My "nature" simply refuses to occupy itself with what I have been doing for more than three weeks.
It seems that my former undertaking was a critical step in this initiation and thus finaly made it possible to accept this new formula of "constant awareness" of that which is going on. This technique is even more effective since it seem to be deepening the experience of "letting go" or "none-attachement".
This new way of handling existance came together with this "Choronzon-like experience", that has been going on for a few days. When I came to feel that "silent observation" was the only thing my nature wanted to stay involved with... Something inside of me simply refuses going back to those prayers. When I try, nothing happens... my tounge and lips simply won't move - it's not even possible doing it within my own mind! Instead, I now greet every experience simply by staying "aware" all the time... There are therefore no more "interruptions", by formulating the words: "Thank you so much". Now there is only constant awareness of that which is going on...
Does this make any sense at all? Not that it matters, this seem like a final "natural" step and I couldn't keep myself from doing it even if you told me to.
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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It makes perfect sense; it means to me that you are no longer a closet Christian.
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@Archaeus said
"It makes perfect sense; it means to me that you are no longer a closet Christian."
Is this because he is not "praying" ?
To address some of the thoughts of the original poster:
You seem to be focused on the "begging" aspect and not the "gratitude"
After all, we are reliant on one another to maintain this existenceRecall, that notion of silent observation:
Thou art the King!
Whom merely plays the part of the Beggar
To say you are a "beggar" is a ridiculous notion,
As it is to presume that you are the body,
Not that which gives it life -
I have also often viewed the Abyss as having the pure potential of infinity without the direction of Will
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@Uni_Verse said
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@Archaeus said
"It makes perfect sense; it means to me that you are no longer a closet Christian."Is this because he is not "praying" ?
To address some of the thoughts of the original poster:
You seem to be focused on the "begging" aspect and not the "gratitude"
After all, we are reliant on one another to maintain this existenceRecall, that notion of silent observation:
Thou art the King!
Whom merely plays the part of the Beggar
To say you are a "beggar" is a ridiculous notion,
As it is to presume that you are the body,
Not that which gives it life"Maybe I was somewhat hasty but I only read in passing; so I should clarify.
I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude. I noticed the recurrence of prayer to God in the OP's posts and the whole overall flavor of Christianity. So maybe the cessation of prayer is a first step towards slaying that demon.Just my opinion though, no doubt mixed with my own projections.
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@Archaeus said
"Maybe I was somewhat hasty but I only read in passing; so I should clarify.
I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude. I noticed the recurrence of prayer to God in the OP's posts and the whole overall flavor of Christianity. So maybe the cessation of prayer is a first step towards slaying that demon.Just my opinion though, no doubt mixed with my own projections."
Are you familiar with the Elemental Prayers ?
Such as that of the Gnomes
Where in, the Magician says the prayer on behalf of the Gnomes,
As opposed to praying to the Gnomes
The prayer becoming an adoration in practice to Adonai -
@Uni_Verse said
"
@Archaeus said
"Maybe I was somewhat hasty but I only read in passing; so I should clarify.
I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude. I noticed the recurrence of prayer to God in the OP's posts and the whole overall flavor of Christianity. So maybe the cessation of prayer is a first step towards slaying that demon.Just my opinion though, no doubt mixed with my own projections."
Are you familiar with the Elemental Prayers ?
Such as that of the Gnomes
Where in, the Magician says the prayer on behalf of the Gnomes,
As opposed to praying to the Gnomes
The prayer becoming an adoration in practice to Adonai"Yes I'm familiar with them, but that wasn't what the OP was doing. I already explained that it seemed as though he was praying to some supreme being to 'save him' or to be grateful to. It doesn't matter though, like I said; maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, it wouldn't be the first time
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Hawkheaded
Sometimes prayer simply stop, as if the mind turns itself inwards and search for silence. Action in general becomes meaningless, almost a disturbance.
Sometimes the key is to fight, but other is just a matter of relax the inner tension and let it flow through you. This intellectual and emotional fever that wants to label everything, control and explain usually is the very source of inner tension.
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@Archaeus said
"I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude."
I wanted, in passing, to remark on this.
Expanded gratitude is distinctly Christian? Sir, I would disagree most fiercely with this. One could argue, instead, that gratitude as a practice is one of the most effective fundamental practices one can undertake.
I agree with Cicero that, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others,” and with Elie Wiesel who wrote, “When a person doesn’t have gratitude, something is missing in his or her humanity.”
It is (among other things) my fundamental attitude toward Nuit.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Archaeus said
"I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude."I wanted, in passing, to remark on this.
Expanded gratitude is distinctly Christian? Sir, I would disagree most fiercely with this. One could argue, instead, that gratitude as a practice is one of the most effective fundamental practices one can undertake.
I agree with Cicero that, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others,” and with Elie Wiesel who wrote, “When a person doesn’t have gratitude, something is missing in his or her humanity.”
It is (among other things) my fundamental attitude toward Nuit."
Yeah I knew I was going to regret this post. Something about what I was reading in the OP's posts didn't sound quite right but I guess I can't put my finger on it at the moment. I withdraw my previous statement.
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I wonder if you were responding to the idea of gratitude to someone or something, vs. gratitude for someone or something.
I started to draw that distinction in my own post, then went back and deleted it. It seemed to me to be too... simple, without being grounded in more details, and I thought the generalization was too general to serve well. But it did cross my mind.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I wonder if you were responding to the idea of gratitude to someone or something, vs. gratitude for someone or something.
I started to draw that distinction in my own post, then went back and deleted it. It seemed to me to be too... simple, without being grounded in more details, and I thought the generalization was too general to serve well. But it did cross my mind."
That sounds about right: I guess I take issue with the idea of Gratitude "to" something/somebody; which would probably be because I'm essentially an atheist. (Or maybe naturalistic pantheist might be a better way to put ut, which makes being grateful to somebody rather untenable) Still; that's no reason to berate somebody for not seeing things from my point of view. I'm getting that a lot recently, must be a phase I'm going through.
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What about gratitude to individuals?
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@Patrick Ossoski said
"What about gratitude to individuals?"
That's not the same as gratitude to imaginary friends though is it? I'm grateful to my mother and I'm at least half certain that she exists?
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All,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Archaeus said
"I get a strong sense of closet Christianity in the OP's posts which come out in all sorts of ways, some of which you have also noticed such as begging/gratitude."I wanted, in passing, to remark on this.
Expanded gratitude is distinctly Christian? Sir, I would disagree most fiercely with this. One could argue, instead, that gratitude as a practice is one of the most effective fundamental practices one can undertake.
I agree with Cicero that, “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all others,” and with Elie Wiesel who wrote, “When a person doesn’t have gratitude, something is missing in his or her humanity.”
It is (among other things) my fundamental attitude toward Nuit."
Jim! Oh Jim! That is such an beautiful way to put it; you make me once again want to lose myself in those prayers of gratitude. But Hadit in my heart have had enough and refuses to go along with this wish of mine... I keep clapsing my hands, over and over again, trying to do the work of the past... but there is only silence coming from the stillness of my lips.
@Archaeus said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"I wonder if you were responding to the idea of gratitude to someone or something, vs. gratitude for someone or something."That sounds about right: I guess I take issue with the idea of Gratitude "to" something/somebody"
I would say that what you talk of here, are both ways the same thing. Doing it both ways, is directing force towards something... Also: I haven't been thankful towards anything - not even when I sang the words: "Oh Lord hear my prayer! Thank you so much!". That song only shows a human heart feverishly occupied with expressing it's current emotional status.
The radio doesn't play for you - it simply plays.
I have all this time been invoking the feeling of gratitude in my heart - like how a man switches on the light in a dark room. Sometimes using phrases like: "Oh Lord hear my prayer! Thank you so much" Only to catch the beauty and to intensify the fever of mine prayers.
I am in love when I do it... Have no doubt about it... My heart is on fire!
I prayed gratitude... I have been invoking the feeling of gratitude... I didn't pray towards anything - even though I sometimes did pretend that I prayed towards something, just to keep the illusion of reality being real... But in reality there is no God but man, and you are all a part of my Khabs...
Patrick Ossoski: I am the universe! You hear me!? I am the universe!
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@ Hawkheaded Lord et al:
I had a bit of a realization this morning: Recently I have seen rather a lot of Order politics, claims and counter-claims of this and that grade and all the rest, and have myself gotten involved in dragging the work of the Order into the realm of common things like a bauble to be owned.I also realize that many of my comments to the OP on this thread stem from the same source of spiritual pride manifesting as criticism of the claims of others. I realize that this kind of thing simply makes the work of the AA into just another item that I am trying to grasp and hold onto in a universe where I can hold nothing but have only my determination to walk the path.
To that end I apologize to the OP and to everyone else for my ego-based comments (There must be hundreds
) And will henceforth get on with my own work and only post when I have something worthwhile to say.93 93/93
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@Archaeus said
"@ Hawkheaded Lord et al:
I had a bit of a realization this morning: Recently I have seen rather a lot of Order politics, claims and counter-claims of this and that grade and all the rest, and have myself gotten involved in dragging the work of the Order into the realm of common things like a bauble to be owned.I also realize that many of my comments to the OP on this thread stem from the same source of spiritual pride manifesting as criticism of the claims of others. I realize that this kind of thing simply makes the work of the AA into just another item that I am trying to grasp and hold onto in a universe where I can hold nothing but have only my determination to walk the path.
To that end I apologize to the OP and to everyone else for my ego-based comments (There must be hundreds
) And will henceforth get on with my own work and only post when I have something worthwhile to say.93 93/93"
Archaeus,
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
I respect you for this last post and I think what you say goes for the rest of us too. Thanks for saving me from my own shame and for bringing me back to earth. I apologize for having lured you down this filthy ego-pathic path. I can't help myself for doing it though and probably won't stop doing it.
That harashness towards yourself (Which I too had once, and still is letting go of. I have the same Saturn/virgo conjuction as you do!) is going to be what you will be up against in the abyss. This will be the time when that "paddle" that has brought you so far; will stop working... And you will then suffer immensly for not understanding "how" to submit to the glory of the most high... That good honest heart of yours will take you through this and life as a whole, I'm sure.
Take care...
Love is the law, love under will.
Peace
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@Archaeus said
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Yes I'm familiar with them, but that wasn't what the OP was doing. I already explained that it seemed as though he was praying to some supreme being to 'save him' or to be grateful to. It doesn't matter though, like I said; maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, it wouldn't be the first time"The idea I was trying to get across is that of agency,
Where in the situation I brought forth, the Magician becomes the conduit of the Divine
Causing the Prayer to rise and the response of Adonai to descend.With the Magician requiring a belief in neither...
Perhaps an example that might better resonate with you :
Even though you personally lean towards Atheism, as a member of the Order were you to be placed in charge of a person more Devotee in character you would work as an agent of their Divine principle regardless of your personal beliefs.
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@Uni_Verse said
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@Archaeus said
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Yes I'm familiar with them, but that wasn't what the OP was doing. I already explained that it seemed as though he was praying to some supreme being to 'save him' or to be grateful to. It doesn't matter though, like I said; maybe I got the wrong end of the stick, it wouldn't be the first time"The idea I was trying to get across is that of agency,
Where in the situation I brought forth, the Magician becomes the conduit of the Divine
Causing the Prayer to rise and the response of Adonai to descend.With the Magician requiring a belief in neither...
Perhaps an example that might better resonate with you :
Even though you personally lean towards Atheism, as a member of the Order were you to be placed in charge of a person more Devotee in character you would work as an agent of their Divine principle regardless of your personal beliefs."that last comment is actually a brilliant point and one that I hadn't considered. But were they a probationer then I would just leave them to it rather than bludgeon them with my opinion.
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@Archaeus said
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To that end I apologize to the OP and to everyone else for my ego-based comments (There must be hundreds ) And will henceforth get on with my own work and only post when I have something worthwhile to say.
"On the other hand... it is a part of the work to let the "bad" stuff out and to analyse them after. It helps both you and others who will read
