LBRP
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93
I've been lurking for a while and I have these questions I hope someone can answer.
I noticed Jim mentioned someone who was banishing earth for the LBRP and suffered as a result. I'm not sure If I'm doing that exactly but - anyway:During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?
Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah? I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on?
I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?
Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?
I've read at least a hundred articles on the lbrp and none of them cover this area.
Cheers for taking the time to read this . -
@Anchorite said
"During the formation and charging of the pentagrams what should one be visualising apart from the pentagrams themselves?"
Nothing else. Visualize them in blue-white light.
"Is one banishing malkuth or the actual malkuthian forms of the elements in Ahssiah?"
If you are speaking of the (generic) Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, then no.
"I just think that it's all well and good charging the bright blue pents with the God names but unless one knows what this symbol represents then surely the mind cannot pick up this symbol in an intuitive way later on? "
I agree and disagree.
Disagree: This is a real symbol! It communicates directly to subconsciousness. Subconsciousness needs little or no training in what it means, and ego-consciousness doesn't actually have to know what it means.
Agree: One benefits from knowing what the pentagram symbol means per se, but not necessarily what the intention is of the ritual. This ritual eventually communicates to the magician. It seems to do that better when one isn't trying to lay preconceptions on top of it.
"I for instance banish the negative forms of the elements - ie sentimentality and heartache during the West pentagram. Is this incorrect?"
We are switching here from the generic LBR to a specific Water Pentagram Ritual. While you can specifically use it for the purpose you state, that isn't the primary purpose. The invoking Water ritual has the primary purpose of attuning your psyche (as if dialling a radio to the right station) to the "frequency" that aligns it with the elemental idea of Water. Having previously invoked Water for some purpose, the banishing Water ritual de-tunes the mind, releasing the specific tuning to the frequency of elemental Water.
This is why I mentioned previously (this thread? another?) that the words "invoking" and "banishing" are misleading. In the specific elemental forms (rather than the generic LBR), you aren't invoking or banishing anything per se so much as tuning your mind to particular realities.
"Also in the same vein, when one is formulating the elemental hexagrams in the BRH what should one be banishing then?"
Same answer as above. (Generally one would not banish a planetary or elemental idea that one had not previously invoked. The "banishing" then undoes the effect of the invocation.)
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Thanks a great deal for taking the time to answer Jim. That's helped a lot. I think I wandered off the basic path for the last 6 months or so.
I do wish there was an good A A system in the UK though, it would take a lot of the load off you from what I've been reading here. -
@photogasm said
"Such a simple ritual, but for someone (like myself) who's never seen it performed, and only has a semi-vague text to go on, it can be all sorts of difficult."
You can see it performed (by several people) on YouTube.
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Frater they don't even have Libraries in Zimbabwe anymore
I must admit it does look a bit bonkers doing the LBRP .. My wife walked in on me flailing my dagger around a couple of years ago, she had that WTF are you doing look on her face ... -
@photogasm said
"Youtube wasn't around back when I learned it.
Many people (the horror) still don't have internet access.
Just making a point."
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
however, anyone reading this does
Love is the law, love under will
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@Frater SI said
"Frater they don't even have Libraries in Zimbabwe anymore
"I didn't write that very right, lol. I meant to say that people, on average in a developed country, have the library to use. It was moreof to the people not having internet... and not for the Zimbabwe part. Bah, I suck at writing.
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93,
Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands.
So... Which is it?
Love=Law
- C
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@ThatNarrowFellow said
"Quick question - most everywhere I read the ritual is said to be preformed with a dagger, but in Duquette's The Magick of Thelema he says, or reprints a manuscript that says, one should use the wands."
Either, depending.
Most often, it's done without any special implement besides the finger. This isn't a "make do," it's just the practical standard and works as well.
The recommendation for a wand is that this should be an act of will. On the other hand, this is a Mars-themed ritual (the Pentagram is a symbol of Geburah - primarily but not exclusively), so a steel implement is consistent with the root idea. Of steel implements, a blade adds further symbolism.
The arguement against the dagger is that it is a symbol of Air and intellect, usually not what you want.
One solution - to carry the Will elements of the wand and the steel blade advantages of the dagger, but without the Air and intellect implications - is to use a short sword similar to the Roman gladius. (A broadsword is way too cumbersome.) As a sword, it would be dedicated to Mars.
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
when i'm "drawing" stuff like pentagrams, i usually use my right thumb, which i stick between my middle and index fingers so that it sticks out from between them. on one plane, this symbolizes "love under will" and it's never done me wrong
Love is the law, love under will
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I too have been using the thumb between fingers technique now for ages. It works fine and if a demon tries to break into your circle you can trick him into thinking you've pulled his nose off.
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The instruction in I.R. Complete GD System of Magic - "an alternate method of vibrating the divine names" shows that one has to make the Calvary Cross, The Enterer, The Sign of Silence. Crowley also uses the same procedure in the Star Ruby.
I think the Calvary Cross posture brings one's mind back to Kether a point stressed in the instruction. And the projecting sign gets the energy going into the pentagram as the Silence sign stops the energy flow. May I ask Jim why do you think differently? -
@Modes said
"May I ask Jim why do you think differently?"
About what, exactly?
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@nashimiron said
"I too have been using the thumb between fingers technique now for ages. It works fine and if a demon tries to break into your circle you can trick him into thinking you've pulled his nose off.
"93! My God, for some reason I just cracked up out loud at work when I read this about the nose! Thanks for that!
can anyone speak more about the symbolism of the thumb between the fingers, and since multiple people are doing this, what source did you take it from?
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Most probably took it from the Gnostic Mass.
The origin is that it's an old Sicilian folk-defense against curses.
The Qabalistic retro-fited symbolism is that the thumb, symbolic of spirit (and surely no longer than Baby H.P.K.'s wee-wee) is a symbol of spirit.
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Exactly about the way one should vibrate the Names in LBPR. You write that one could exlude all the signs - just visualize and vibrate but it is contrary to the sources I mentioned. I mentioned the logic why one would do it how it is written. I would like to understand why you do it differently.
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For me the question would be the opposite: Why have a few modern authors unnecessarily changed the original instructions? The simple method of pointing your finger or other implement at the center of the pentagram and vibrating the Name gives very precise control, allows one to maintain uninterrupted concentration, and is thoroughly sufficient.