Star Ruby
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@Fr.211 said
"Also, about the elemental attributions; how do they differ from the MTP version?"
In The Book of Lies version, 'CHAOS' is roared in the east rather than 'THERION'...'BABALON' is screamed to the north rather than saying 'NUIT'...in the west 'EROS' is said rather than whispering 'BABALON'...& in the south 'PSYCHE' is bellowed rather than 'HADIT'.
616
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@Fr.211 said
"So does this also have to do with the order in which the NOX signs are given?, or is the same order that is used in Reguli also used in the Book of Lies version of the Star Ruby? Also, about the elemental attributions; how do they differ from the MTP version?"
No, they're given the same way - at the center, at the middle part of the ritual. They aren't given in the quarters as in Reguli.
The Liber 333 version has Fire in the East, Water in the North, Air in the West, and Earth in the North. The MT&P version has Earth in the East, Air in the North, Water in the West, and Fire in the South.
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@KRVB MMShCh said
"In The Book of Lies version, 'CHAOS' is roared in the east rather than 'THERION'...'BABALON' is screamed to the north rather than saying 'NUIT'...in the west 'EROS' is said rather than whispering 'BABALON'...& in the south 'PSYCHE' is bellowed rather than 'HADIT'."
Yes. Skipping past various styles that could be ambiguous, one can tell the Lion and the Bull from the Roar and the Bellow.
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@Jim Eshelman said
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@Fr.211 said
"So does this also have to do with the order in which the NOX signs are given?, or is the same order that is used in Reguli also used in the Book of Lies version of the Star Ruby? Also, about the elemental attributions; how do they differ from the MTP version?"No, they're given the same way - at the center, at the middle part of the ritual. They aren't given in the quarters as in Reguli.
The Liber 333 version has Fire in the East, Water in the North, Air in the West, and Earth in the North. The MT&P version has Earth in the East, Air in the North, Water in the West, and Fire in the South."
Why are the directions so plyable? I thought east was air, earth eas north, west was water & south was fire...can you explain to me how & why the same ritual would have several different corresponding directions?
L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
"Why are the directions so plyable? I thought east was air, earth eas north, west was water & south was fire...can you explain to me how & why the same ritual would have several different corresponding directions?"
There are different schemes with different implications.
Already in the G.D. you see one framework (called Microcosmic) in use in the First Order, and another (called Macrocosmic) in use within the vault (but not outside the vault or equivalent) in the Second Order.
Something I haven't seen explained elsewhere - possibly I discovered it - is that the frameworks of the different scheme is derived from certain divine names. The oldest Kabbalistic divine names for the top, bottom, and middle of the Middle Pillar are: ADNI for Malkuth, YHVH for Tiphereth, and AHIH for Kether.
Now, for the First Order, beginning in Malkuth, the pattern is based on the letters of ADNI clockwise from the East. (Remember that planets take their elemental attribution from the Sephirothic attribution.) For the Second Order, beginning in Tiphereth, the pattern is based on the letters of YHVH counter-clockwise from the East. Conceivably there is a third pattern for the Third Order based on the letters of AHIH, and I think these are distributed in the form of a cross.
But there are other scheme possible. Imagine a Malkuth ritual where the particular nature of the working was served by laying out the elements as in the quarters of Malkuth on the Tree. And so forth...
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I guess I should have been more specific in my question; by the order in which they are given I meant: does it still go Puella, Puer, Vir, Mulier, Maters Triumphans as it does in Reguli? Or is there another order in which to give them where the descend from Fire to Earth is traced out to strengthen the effect of the BOL version of the Star Ruby? I've read that Crowley altered the original version of the Star Ruby to conform with Reguli, so I was wondering whether the order in which the NOX signs are given was also altered. Btw, great site here!
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@Fr.211 said
"I guess I should have been more specific in my question; by the order in which they are given I meant: does it still go Puella, Puer, Vir, Mulier, Maters Triumphans as it does in Reguli?"
No no no. Isn't this information generally available? It has no relationship to what's done in Reguli at all. It's spelled out on this forum in this therad:
www.heruraha.net/viewtopic.php?t=474Facing East after you've returned to the center, say the parts in bold and do these actions:
N. (give the Sign of Puer, 6=5, corresponding to Geburah)
O. (give the Sign of Vir, 7=4, corresponding to Chesed)
(With a brief pause of silence, give the Sign of Puella = the first sign of the Babe of the Abyss)
X. (give the Sign of Mulier = the second sign of the Babe of the Abyss)
NOX — IO PAN (Give the Sign of Mater Triumphans, 8=3, corresponding to Binah)"Or is there another order in which to give them where the descend from Fire to Earth is traced out to strengthen the effect of the BOL version of the Star Ruby?"
The sequence is the same and the way of doing it is the same. It isn't related to what you've done with the elements around the quarter. The ritual has gone on to a whole different process.
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Now, for the First Order, beginning in Malkuth, the pattern is based on the letters of ADNI clockwise from the East."
I'm not sure I know what you mean...are you talking about the elemental attributions of each letter?...such as A=air, D=fire, N=water & I=earth?
L.Lazuli
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@Lapis said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Now, for the First Order, beginning in Malkuth, the pattern is based on the letters of ADNI clockwise from the East."I'm not sure I know what you mean...are you talking about the elemental attributions of each letter?...such as A=air, D=fire, N=water & I=earth?"
Yes. A D N I is Aleph (Air), Venus (Fire via Netzach), Scorpio (a Water sign), Virgo (an Earth sign).
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yes. A D N I is Aleph (Air), Venus (Fire via Netzach), Scorpio (a Water sign), Virgo (an Earth sign)."
So what would the elemental correspondances of YHVH & AHIH be? Is YHVH the traditional fire, water, air & earth? I have never seen an elemental correspondance to AHIH...
L.Lazilu
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@Lapis said
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@Jim Eshelman said
"Yes. A D N I is Aleph (Air), Venus (Fire via Netzach), Scorpio (a Water sign), Virgo (an Earth sign)."So what would the elemental correspondances of YHVH & AHIH be? Is YHVH the traditional fire, water, air & earth? I have never seen an elemental correspondance to AHIH..."
On YHVH yes. In other words, the standard Macrocosmic scheme is Fire, Water, Air, Earth counter-clockwise from the East. (See, for example, the usual instructions for the Lesser Hexagram Ritual which, however, usually fail to mention that those directions are only used within the Vault of the Adepti.)
No, you wouldn't have seen AHIH anywhere. It's my extrapolation from the rest. The key was to figure out which Heh is which. The solution: There are many contexts in which AHIH and IHVH are amalgamated so that the IH at the end of one and the beginning of the other are the same letters. This means that Aleph Heh is Air-Earth and Yod Heh is Fire-Water. With various other patterns falling in place, this resolves to Air-Earth being the East-West axis, and Fire-Water being South-North. (This cross completes the other two circles.)
An interesting discovery is that the resulting pattern actually appears in the Golden Dawn 0=0 temple floor plan and gives one explanation for the seeming disparity between the First Order eloemental positions vs. the Hiereus and Stolistes stations.
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Actually like a few others that have posted in this thread, I got confused by the sparse attention that Crowley gave to explaining the NOX signs, combined with certain authors having interpreted them in different ways. This quote in particular set me thinking that the order of the NOX signs might be related to the intent of the original Greek version of the Star Ruby:
"There is an oral tradition, probably deriving originally from the Berkeley OTO, which performs the signs in the order of the four worlds from Fire to Earth, followed by Spirit. This represents the descent of the divine reality through the four worlds into the circle, establishing the manifestation of Spirit"
In any case, thanx for your answer; it makes sense that the order should trace out the grades above the abyss, as Crowley probably originally intended
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@Fr.211 said
"Actually like a few others that have posted in this thread, I got confused by the sparse attention that Crowley gave to explaining the NOX signs, combined with certain authors having interpreted them in different ways."
At the time he was writing this stuff, he considered that stuff secret. The N.O.X. signs are the grade signs of 6=5 through 8=3 in A.'.A.'. and had other implications he wasn't ready to write about. His private magical notebook had lots of stuff, though, and there are notes in correspondence.
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As Ì
ve got SR is really an more thelemic variation of LBRP, containing Therion/Babalon/Nuit/Hadit instead of IHVH/Adni/Ahih/Agla. And I prefer it cause its effections are strong and feels more natural to do than normal LBRP. And Raphael/Gabriel/Michael/Auriel part didnt really feel good too. I prefer more this "pro mou iugges.."- part, though its still the part from Star Ruby that is the most abstract for me. Ive been studyingng the main-theory of the ritual from Lon Milo Du`Quettes Book "The magick of Aleister Crowley", but need to find more information about Lynges, Teletarchai, Synoches and Daimones, so that I could get more inside into it.
Just remembered I had this link of pictures related to those from Thelema.org. See those if you will.Lynges: www.thelema.org/home/art_gallery_images/iynges.jpg
Teletarchael: www.thelema.org/home/art_gallery_images/teletarchai.jpg
Daimonos: www.thelema.org/home/art_gallery_images/daimonos.jpg
Synocheis: www.thelema.org/home/art_gallery_images/synoches.jpgEdit: Aa, seems Jim Eshelman had allready posted a link before to aumha.org, where those same pics can also be found....
What are Sephirahs that Star Ruby is connected with? I wonder if SR is about Therion(=Chokmah/Chaos), Nuit (=Kether), Babalon (=Binah) and Hadit (=Malkuth). But how about compared to normal LBRP? What is the change from normal lbrp into star ruby from the aspect of tree of life?
As I`ve got normal LBRP is about Samekh and Tiphereth, Netzach, Hod and Yesod-sefirahs. Please give me better information as I believe many here knows about this more, thank you. -
@Jim Eshelman said
"Second approach: Preserve both the Names and the Elements to the Quarters suggested by the revision – Earth, Air, Water, Fire, clockwise beginning in the East – but rearrange all of the associated symbolism as well by simply swapping “bellow” and “roar.” Bellow “Therion” in the East, say “Nuit” in the North, whisper or hiss Babalon in the West, and roar Hadit in the South. This conforms to the simplest interpretation of the revision manuscript evidence: that Crowley simply missed reversing the words “bellow” and “roar” during his editing of the manuscript.
"Or one could simply swap "whisper" and "say"; creating an equally valid and intriguing set of symbolic correspondences while preserving the original macrocosmic scheme of the ritual. Perhaps Crowley intentionally "messed up" in order to leave this ritual open-ended and workable on different levels?
"Those who regard this ritual as a mere device to invoke or banish spirits, are unworthy to possess it. Properly understood, it is the Medicine of Metals and the Stone of the Wise."
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Jim would you please post your analysis from the Black Pearl of the Star Ruby. I believe you've been so kind as to share Part 3, but not parts 1 and 2. Thanks in advance.
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@Tinman said
"Jim would you please post your analysis from the Black Pearl of the Star Ruby. I believe you've been so kind as to share Part 3, but not parts 1 and 2. Thanks in advance."
It's really too lengthy for that. We'll try to find a way to make it accessible in the future.
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Follow-up... I found the original published files and, if time permits, will try to put these up. No promises.
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@Her said
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@bethata418 said
"understand but duquette saud there was nothign to it, just a simple mistake:("That's my point exactly. That knowledgeable and experienced students can study Crowley's works and still come to mistaken and incorrect conclusions says a lot."
I think this is something to remember in general with the people who came up in the 70s. Many of them had incomplete information and created their own personal systems of magickal development based on incomplete understandings of Crowley's work because they didn't have the access to the material that we do now. Some remained extremely orthodox like DUQuette & others got all Typhonian like the Ma'atians and developed wholly different systems also based on Liber AL. We now have the benefit of the work of HB, Jim etc. in that they are getting this "lost" information out there for us to use and develop a more whole relationship with the Holy Books outside of just Liber AL.
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Thanks much Jim for posting parts 1 and 2 - very helpful
FYI: Just get together those Black Pearls, stick them in a book (Lulu online has been good to me), and you've got a sale here