Joining the A.'.A.'.
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Froclown -
The sheer breadth and depth of your misapprehensions concerning just about everything you've written about on this forum is quite breathtaking. Just about everything you post is contradicted by something else posted by you a few days earlier. You talk about getting students as a goad to get you to keep records. What do you intend to tell them about the importance of the Magical Record? To wait until they have students of their own before they have to do so?
I don't think I've ever read anyone on this forum who talks out his ass quite as well as you do and I pity anyone who buys into your bullshit enough to accept you as a teacher.
I normally wouldn't bother saying any of this, but I find the overwhelming evidence in many of your posts of a deep and abiding hatred of women quite distasteful. Fro' you are a sad, pathetic little man.
Dan
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JAE is so patient with you. There's no way anyone on this list can take what you say seriously. Your viewpoint has no reference points or vocabulary that anyone can relate to.
It would be more beneficial if you actually had something to communicate to us so we could respond to you. Otherwise, you may find that no one responds to you, and it will be as if you are invisible.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
On the contrary, it is by not keeping records that I learn their importance.
Anyway, I have my Probationers keeping journals for 2-3 weeks without any kind of ritual practices to get a base reading as a control.
Then I will introduce simple meditation and Kabbalistic cross exersizes. Compare journals (including pulse rate, and blood pressure readings) with the base readings.
Which provides the scientific controls that were missing from my own work efforts.
I keep a similar record myself, and can not be accused of hypocrisy.
And women have many good qualities that are repressed by Osiris culture and ideals, where as her lowest qualities are enhanced. This is my criticism, nothing more.
Turning her away from authenticity and into a deceptive siren, an image and a lie. Thelema seeks to reconnect her with her nature and promotes Authenticity.
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@Froclown said
"Anyway, I have my Probationers keeping journals for 2-3 weeks without any kind of ritual practices to get a base reading as a control.
Then I will introduce simple meditation and Kabbalistic cross exersizes. Compare journals (including pulse rate, and blood pressure readings) with the base readings. "
For purposes of comparison:
@Aleister Crowley said
"I have been asked by Authority to say a few words on the relations which should subsist between a Neophyte and his Probationers... He is not expected to set definite tasks, nor has he authority to do so. The Probationer is purposely left to himself, as the object of probation is principally that those in authority may discover the nature of the raw material. (Editorial, The Equinox No. 7.)"
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I have only asked them to keep journals at this time, journals of their normal behavior, I asked for a pulse and if possible blood pressure, in order to get some sort of measure on base physiology.
I have not given any specific tasks at this time, and when I do, for the probationer these tasks only serve as benchmarks to setting some sort of routine, by which to organize the information.
Thrice daily performance of LBPR will be required of Neophytes.
Liber Jugorum, part 1 of Zelators. Etc.
I am staying mostly with the original material, but for some initiates, I may try out alternative readings and practices. Of course comparing the effectiveness, via the journal records.
The process can them be refined and improved upon. I wish I had kept a journal, so I could compare theirs to mine. Which would facilitate matters greatly and lend credibility.
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"It may be true that you are running something you have called A.'.A.'.. Let's please not confuse it with anything that anyone else here means by that name"
I feel that lineage is an important thing if you are joning a ritual group that deals with initiation. They got to have the right inner contact.
As for ToT there is no question.
I see the whole thing like a driver license. Would I ride in a taxi cab with someone who don't have a driver license? -
Which brings us to the original question of "joining the A. A." I have all the physical books. Many I have already read and continue to study. Whom may I contact to officially begin my period of study, so that when the time is ended, I can be tested and become a probationer? I am too far currently from any temples, but that may change by the end of the student period. Also, trips the temples in LA are possible as I frequent there often.
Thanks in advance for the enlightenment.
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I suggest you visit www.ordoaa.org and www.thelema.org
Everything you need is there.
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Froclown,
Your use of the title A.'.A.'. ticks me off, and is total bull. How dare you use the title of my brotherhood that you have no right to? We labor constantly to spread the light to humanity and have a direct line from Crowley himself as well as connections in the third order. You attempt to cheapen our name with some internet- log- in-and I will go ahead and accept you?
If you want to be in the A.'.A.'. get off your tail and do the work like everyone else and stop being lazy. -
@Froclown said
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The A.'.A.'. is not worship of some order, it is found in oneself. We are all Ipssissimus at our core, the trick is to raise our awareness of our true inner nature. Rather that the old aeon formula of exalting some GOD or savior."
93 Froclown,
I'm sure you have no ill intentions, but in regards to the AA, you are right only on one level. There is the AA, and there is the Order AA founded by Crowley. The Order known as AA requires a direct lineage. The ultimate AA is one we serve and is the root of all true orders, but is not a physical order in itself. This should not stop students from studying the AA material by themselves but I think it is not appropriate to take on students unless you explain to them that Crowley's AA requires lineage and you have none. Perhaps calling it an AA study group with you as a moderator would be more honest. But if you are giving the AA Order certificates of advancement, thus is not appropriate IMHO.
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well, i was not giving any certificates, or the like.
I was simply working to present the official A.'.A.'. material, most of which is public domain, to initiates giving then the right texts, rituals and practices in the right order.
I asked them to keep a journal so that I could evaluate the effects of each assignment against their pre-assignment journals. Then I can apply a test of their skills or a proof that they attained the state or vision proper to that grade. Upon doing so, I would allow them to wear the title of that Grade, and give them the next assignments.
I did not claim any lineage, and I actively dispelled the notion that I worked for any continuation of Crowley's order, which I regard as collapsed, (like the original Golden Dawn) and this with out any official lineage.
But just as anyone can pick up "The Golden Dawn" and use it as source material to foster his own golden down group, as I see it anyone with the gumption to take on the task, can start up the A.'.A.'.
Success in this however is dependent upon many factors, one is finding students who will do the work, another is finding students who will not seek to by pass instruction by going straight to the source material in public domain.
Also, I was supplementing the official source material with, with information the particular student may find useful, like Carrolls Chaos magick, certain notions from Discordianism, and nuero-theology, General semantics, and the structure of the church of the Subgenius to name a few.
The ideal is to produce physiological and psychological states of being that correspond to the grade titles, not to convey social prestige or bragging rights to the title of a certain lineage.
I take ritual to be aimed at physical changes in the individual, not a set of political claims to prestige and authority. (a peasant can not hide his poverty)
When you say I do not represent a true lineage of the A.'.A.'. I take that as seriously as the Ivy league association of Tenured professors, who say "who cares if his equations are right or if he gets results, he is not acting on behalf of any respected lineage of tenured professors, he has no right to teach physics"
When I started along this path, the net was young, I liven far from any book stores, no I had no access to anything like the information now available. But even with what I had, it was alot to sort out. But if I had some orderly compiled information, broken into segments to help me advance in a steady pace I could have been saved alot of trauma, pitfalls, and red herrings.
Thus my hope is to guide initiates, so they do not get information overload or achieve unpleasant results they are not prepared for, thus preventing many from giving up, and perhaps enticing many who are turned off before they start.
I am still working on the system, but i am no longer with the SL A.'.A.'.
I was trying to fix it, I mean I was raised from student to magus in 3 weeks, so it was poorly formulated, but I could not find students worth of the system I use, they all dropped out, couldn't even keep a journal for 2 weeks.
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@Froclown said
"well, i was not giving any certificates, or the like.
I was simply working to present the official A.'.A.'. material, most of which is public domain, to initiates giving then the right texts, rituals and practices in the right order.
I asked them to keep a journal so that I could evaluate the effects of each assignment against their pre-assignment journals. Then I can apply a test of their skills or a proof that they attained the state or vision proper to that grade. Upon doing so, I would allow them to wear the title of that Grade, and give them the next assignments. "
Funny how students see themselves as teachers so easily.
"But just as anyone can pick up "The Golden Dawn" and use it as source material to foster his own golden down group, as I see it anyone with the gumption to take on the task, can start up the A.'.A.'. "
Certainly, but to claim you are A.'.A.'. or Golden Dawn would be ridiculous.
"Success in this however is dependent upon many factors, one is finding students who will do the work, another is finding students who will not seek to by pass instruction by going straight to the source material in public domain. "
You mean inquisitive and persistent students? Sounds like you are weeding out the right type of people...
"Also, I was supplementing the official source material with, with information the particular student may find useful, like Carrolls Chaos magick, certain notions from Discordianism, and nuero-theology, General semantics, and the structure of the church of the Subgenius to name a few. "
That actually sounds quite cool.
"The ideal is to produce physiological and psychological states of being that correspond to the grade titles, not to convey social prestige or bragging rights to the title of a certain lineage. "
That seemed to have been the intention all along yet people still wear them as badges and labels.
"I take ritual to be aimed at physical changes in the individual, not a set of political claims to prestige and authority. (a peasant can not hide his poverty) "
Rituals CAN be political I believe but they are not limited thereto.
"When you say I do not represent a true lineage of the A.'.A.'. I take that as seriously as the Ivy league association of Tenured professors, who say "who cares if his equations are right or if he gets results, he is not acting on behalf of any respected lineage of tenured professors, he has no right to teach physics""
And consequently no one pays attention to him. Credentials are everything in the academic world so its a little silly to compare to something where there is no objective measurement (spiritual attainment).
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I was trying to fix it, I mean I was raised from student to magus in 3 weeks, so it was poorly formulated, but I could not find students worth of the system I use, they all dropped out, couldn't even keep a journal for 2 weeks."Student to Magus in 3 weeks? That should be the trial period for the beginning of the Student period, if that. It also does no good to blame 100% fail rate on the students.
IAO131
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Yes, The fact that I the previous owner of the group raised me without test or reason to magus, was exactly why I thought it needed reformed and worked to do so.
but, when I call a meeting to discuss seriously the changes I am going to make and out of 20 only 3 show up and one of them is dressed as a furry, and spends his time goofing off and humping things, and one is running around shooting people, and the third most serious is in full armor with a drawn sword and keeps complaining that he needs to get back to the battle and has no time to discuss occult order matters. I think, just maybe the members that the the previous owner allowed to join are not serious about doing the work.
So I banned several of them, and found people who were more serious, but they didn't want to work in stages and just wanted to get the "secrets" and once they found the source material, they had all the keys to the "in jokes" and rhetoric, so they quite the order or stopped the ritual work.
Then came those who sad they would keep a journal, the first and only task I gave them, and yet only one of these ever sent me a copy of a journal to look at and this only one day. Then the previous owner shows up out of the blue and says I did not do a good job reforming her order and took it back, banned the one student who ever did any work, making that student think I was messing with him, so he left and is gone.
Now, as for this tenure this, a old crank in a shack can discover scientific truth, invent a better mouse trap, or launch a rocket to the moon, there are the goals of science, and such an unknown crank is just as justified in teaching the sciences as a professor of a well known university.
The A.'.A.'. is not like a university, so much as a field of study, like physics. You don't have to know some one who was taught physics by a student in Einsteins class in order to teach relativity. The grades of the A.'.A.'. are not like being a bishop in the catholic church where one has to have the power of Peter based via a hand shake chain.
What I see is an attempt at sorcery, that is an attempt to control a source for personal gains. Like one who poisons well, so that he can charge high price for him own water. Well I don't think I was ever a threat to your monopoly, so there is no need for the supposed great white brotherhood to sully its reputation with black sorcery, but I guess its too late now.
but maybe this A.'.A.'. is run the way Mr. Breeze runs his Caliphate
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What does dressed in a furry mean?
In L.V.X.,
chrys333 -
@Chris Hanlon said
"What does dressed in a furry mean?
In L.V.X.,
chrys333"Furry is an animal costume. The term furry is typical given to those who dress in such costumes and have a sexual deviation of interest in animals, whether or not they actually act it out. Members of the furry culture tend to be gay and often have anonymous sex while in costume. Yes, the world is a strange place. Not everyone fits this broad analysis, but the reputation is certainly there.
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93
ONE STAR IN SIGHT
by Aleister CrowleyThy feet in mire, thine head in murk,
O man, how piteous thy plight,
The doubts that daunt, the ills that irk,
Thou hast nor wit nor will to fight —
How hope in heart, or worth in work?
No star in sight!Thy Gods proved puppets of the priest.
"Truth? All's relation!" science sighed.
In bondage with thy brother beast,
Love tortured thee, as Love's hope died
And Love's faith rotted. Life no least
Dim star descried.Thy cringing carrion cowered and crawled
To find itself a chance-cast clod
Whose Pain was purposeless; appalled
That aimless accident thus trod
Its agony, that void skies sprawled
On the vain sod!All souls eternally exist,
Each individual, ultimate
Perfect - each makes itself a mist
Of mind and flesh to celebrate
With some twin mask their tender tryst
Insatiate.Some drunkards, doting on the dream,
Despair that it should die, mistake
Themselves for their own shadow-scheme.
One star can summon them to wake
To self; star-souls serene that gleam
On life's calm lake.That shall end never that began.
All things endure because they are.
Do what thou wilt, for every man
And every woman is a star.
Pan is not dead; he liveth, Pan!
Break down the bar!To man I come, the number of
A man my number, Lion of Light;
I am The Beast whose Law is Love.
Love under will, his royal right —
Behold within, and not above,
One star in sight! -
(Big sigh, again.)
Furry.
Once I was on the PFCase list, and a musician who told us that he was very much, as many musicians are, into Thelema. However, he had a three year old son, and the Thelemites he actually knew, he would never allow in the same house with his family. This caused him some cognitive dissonance.
Sometimes, no offense, I feel the same way on this list.
Of course, so called Christians cause cognitive dissonance in me, also.
Since both Thelema and Christianity require acceptance of the whole of creation, I believe I cannot be part of either.I don't love everybody. I don't accept everyone and their actions.Good luck on everyone's journey.
In L.V.X.,
chrys333