Questions on meditation
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@IQOB BITH said
"I'm not quite sure how I typed lbrh, cause I have only done the lbrp, that's some typo considering the keys are rows apart. "
I thought so based on your later replies, but felt it was important enough a point to bring up.
@IQOB BITH said
"Made it only. 30 Mins. Today. My feet were totally numb after that period. I just observed the thoughts that pop up. "
Be careful not to push your self too hard.
A consistent practice will net better results.@IQOB BITH said
"I have a habit of narrating what I am experiencing to my self as I am experiencing it. At one point (during this exercise) I tried to kill that thought because I felt like it had some sort of negative effect."
I would advice against "killing" the voice.
It is better to stop resisting it, let it ramble on but pay it no heed.
With time and practice it shall become easy to ignore (though it may get louder before it gets softer).
This 'voice' can be useful for vision and scrying Work that you may do later on. -
Yeah, I use a meditation bench with dragon, because I'm a big guy and my feet go seriously numb otherwise. Listen to your body.
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*15. Now it is necessary, in order to hold a position, to pay attention to it. That is to say: you are going to become conscious of your body in ways of which you are not conscious if you are engaged in some absorbing mental pursuit, or even in some purely physical activity, such as running. It sounds paradoxical at first sight, but violent exercise, so far from concentrating attention on the body, takes it away. That is because exercise has its own rhythm; and, as I said, rhythm is half-way up the ridge to Silence.
Very good, then; in the comparative stillness of the body, the student becomes aware of minute sounds which did not disturb him in his ordinary life. At least, not when his mind was occupied with matters of interest. You will begin to fidget, to itch, to cough. Possibly your breathing will begin to play tricks upon you. All these symptoms must be repressed. The process of repressing them is extremely difficult; and, like all other forms of repression, it leads to a terrific exaggeration of the phenomena which it is intended to repress.
*-- Eight Lectures on Yoga -- A.C.
Read the whole thing if you haven't already!
Take care not to bite off more than you can chew. A daily practice of 5 minutes is better than a monthly practice for an hour. Not everybody is a born ascetic. The aim is creating a habit. Running is a mile is better 5 times a week than a monthly marathon.
Also, I would monitor the body breaks -- count how many times you move in a given time at first. Always write them down in your book to chart progress. Then once that gets managable, move to how many times your attention "moves" from your concentration on posture stillness. It is helpful to use the break count method:
*•Firstly, physical sensations; these should have been overcome by Asana.
•Secondly, breaks that seem to be indicated by events immediately preceding the meditation: their activity becomes tremendous. Only by this practice does one understand how much is really observed by the senses without the mind becoming conscious of it.
•Thirdly, there is a class of break partaking of the nature of reverie or 'day-dreaming.' These are very insidious-one may go on for a long time without realising that one has wandered at all.
•Fourthly, we get a very high class of break, which is a sort of abberation of the control itself. You think, 'How well I am doing it!' or perhaps that it would be rather a good idea if you were on a desert island, or if you were in a sound-proof house, or if you were sitting by a waterfall. But these are only trifling variations from the vigilance itself.
•A fifth class of break seems to have no discoverable source in the mind-such might even take the form of actual hallucination, usually auditory. Of course, such hallucinations are infrequent, and are recognised for what they are. Otherwise the student had better see a doctor. The usual kind consists of odd sentences, or fragments of sentences, which are quite distinctly heard in a recognisable human voice, not the student's own voice, or that of anyone he knows. A similar phenomenon is observed by wireless operators, who call such messages 'atmospherics.'
•There is a further kind of break, which is the desired result itself. *-- Ibid.
Keep in mind, this is an exercise in CONCENTRATION. Just like lifting weights. Thinking about the analysis about the theories about the methods won't help your biceps get as big as mine. Which are absolutely huge btw.
But it's a fair warning! Chances are you'll obsess about what everybody else says about it before you do it yourself (lord knows I did). Putting in the work is the first step on the road to success!
Best of luck to you on your Path!
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So I have noticed that there is a difference between what I would term my "inner narration" and the "voice of my mind" for lack of better termenology. In short, the narration is always in context with what I am experiencing (which is the mind's voice). Now i know this because I listen to it (the mind voice) and the things it says are totally random. These thoughts I know are not arising from my subconcious (but could it be the universal-concious?) because they have no bearing on my situation, or even broader my entire life. For example (not an actual instance) while meditating i have the concious line of thought ( I feel, I hear, I smell.. etc.) interupted by thoughts such as " bob just got back from the pharmacy". I dont know a BOB, and i was not at the pharmacy nor do I need to go. Anyone else experience any thing like this? Could it be my mind taking the myriad of sensory input I have sucked up and mixing it all together and spitting back out something seeminlgy unrecognisible? Or could it be that I am picking up the thoughts of people living their lives unaware that they are shooting these little thoughts out as they take bob to the pharmacy? And in the case of the latter is there any ehtical responsibility to not hear these thoughts that are not mine?
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" usual kind consists of odd sentences, or fragments of sentences, which are quite distinctly heard in a recognisable human voice"
I do not imagine that I should be having this "break" so i would say the things I am "hearing" are not actually hallucinations. could be (and have been) wrong
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@IQOB BITH said
"Anyone else experience any thing like this? Could it be my mind taking the myriad of sensory input I have sucked up and mixing it all together and spitting back out something seeminlgy unrecognisible? Or could it be that I am picking up the thoughts of people living their lives unaware that they are shooting these little thoughts out as they take bob to the pharmacy? And in the case of the latter is there any ehtical responsibility to not hear these thoughts that are not mine?"
Yes. It is quite natural.
Aim at silencing audible thought forms. Do not try to attribute any actual objectivity to what you are experiencing -- is it happening in your mind? Be happy that you're paying more attention to it.
And what difference does it make to trade one busy thought for another with all these theories? The point is to still the body to non-movement, then the mind to non-movement. Everything else is a "break". Also, again the POINT IS EXERCISE OF CONCENTRATION, NOT GETTING SOME TELEPATHIC SUPERPOWER, as flattering as that idea may be. All else is a distraction from your practice.
Give yourself AT LEAST six months of daily practice and recording of phenomena before trying to form theories. By then, the theories shouldn't matter so much -- unless you want to be long-winded on forums. Theories are what people accomplish in lieu of results.
DO the work! It will pay off in ways that you can't even dream of yet...
Also, where's the fire? Why rush? The Joy is in the Going. Be encouraged...everybody that has done Asana proper has experienced these phenomena. That's why it is mentioned in the list of "breaks".
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I am looking for the metaphysical sign post but I cant "see the trees for the wood" as it were. I definately agree that the theorizing is doing little but distracting from the real work. I felt I needed to build a broad base before diving in, but I got to the point were I wanted to start practicing and found myself reluctant. I would compare it to rock climbing, when a person doesn't ubnderstand the belay device and how to tie proper knots they are reluctant. Lol I taught myself to belay and tie all the knots I know, but it wasn't until I understood how they operated that I felt comfortable putting it into action. At some point I theorized ( oh boy here we go again) that the rituals and God names etc. where merely conventions by which we access areas of our subconscious mind. So I figured hell be damned and started in on some practice.
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Working on the theoretical foundations of Magick can be a form of yoga...
Theories, built upon experience is what shall allow you to determine what is a break and what is an actual issue (at the very least, assist in doing so).
A feeling of discomfort from your ankle may be a break, it could also be a sign you are putting too much pressure, that there is an imbalance in your posture.
In the former case, it happens, you pay it not mind... life is peachy.
Were it the latter, without taking proper care you may do permanent damage. -
@Uni_Verse said
"Working on the theoretical foundations of Magick can be a form of yoga...
Theories, built upon experience is what shall allow you to determine what is a break and what is an actual issue (at the very least, assist in doing so).
A feeling of discomfort from your ankle may be a break, it could also be a sign you are putting too much pressure, that there is an imbalance in your posture.
In the former case, it happens, you pay it not mind... life is peachy.
Were it the latter, without taking proper care you may do permanent damage."When I read this, the comments fit quite nicely in regard to resolving dis-ease and imbalance in all aspects of life -- and learning how to will and following your Path.
Become one with what works, distance yourself from what doesn't.
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Agreed, this ship of mine lost a ballast stone.
So, during my most recent meditation session at one point perhaps 10 maybe 15 minutes in I started feeling like my body was just going to stand up with out my telling it to. I will assuredly butcher this experience by trying to convey and understand it. (just so you know i am aware). However it seems to me that this could be another indication that I am not "balanced". It felt as if my body were a vessel that was being overfilled, with an exaggeration of the effect on the (inside of the) front of my body. As if the force were pulling me the way a horse is yoked to a wagon, in the sense that it pushes the wagon. "You" said note the observations, I would not think much of this if It had not been so dramatic. The feeling became quite exaggerated at one point, so much sot that I felt as if i would begin to perspire if I did not give in. I decided to stay the course and continue focusing on my breath and eventually the phenomena subsided. My question is was my body trying to say get the frak up? should I have assumed so and given in? or was I right in just sticking it out. My apologies if these questions are shallow, thanks every one so much for the replies. They have been a god send truly.
I am a cancer and I know that my (maternal)grand father had manic episodes and mother has dyslexia and has suffered for a long time with emotional problems. I bring that up because I feel that my subconscious emotional state is getting stirred up, and I know it has got to be causing some imbalance. I have had trauma throughout life but I have but have always been able to roll with it with an appropriate amount of pain. I think some of the things from my past (behaviors, habits, experiences etc.) are causing some kind of imbalance. But is this not part of the great work? To purify the different aspects of our consciousness? Thanks again every one.
WILL
LOVE -
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Magick and mysticism excite and exaggerate our personality imbalances. Listen to yourself and take a break when something gets to be too much. If there's some serious healing you need to do, go do that, and come back to this later.
If you're still functioning, and are just having manageable mood/personality issues in response to your practice--then, have some good food, get some sunshine, get your feet in the dirt/grass/sand/water, watch out for over-indulgence in mind-altering substances for the time being, and warn your friends and lovers that you're going to be "cranky" and need their support.
And then, make sure not to resist any uncomfortable feelings/ideas that come up. Just give yourself some quiet time, and let yourself experience them fully. And persist. Is part of you curious about what happens next?
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It could very well me a manifestation of your fear.
"Oh no, do not walk down this path.. you will end up just like them!"
Regardless, it is an issue you need to work through (or you would not have brought it up).
As you will find that either :
(a) that fear did cause the phenomenon, which will stop occurring once you work through the issue
(b) the fear has nothing to do with the phenomenon and there is another underlying issue
(c) it was a solitary occurrence of no real significanceObviously, this is conjecture and you will not find an answer unless you continue your practices
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I would just keep practicing. You may start to notice that your over-analysis might be bordering on obsession.
Asana does make you more aware of a lot of thngs...and when you start to put the bridle on your mind, it will fight back. The mind is a wonderful slave but a terrible master.
Note the observations -- they are "breaks" in your concentration. Again, these are concentration exercises.
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Frater639
"over-analysis might be bordering on obsession"
I agree, I developed a tendency to over analyze pretty much every thing as a teen. I have always rationalized that over-analysis is better that over-simplification. However I would like to make the conjecture that the over-analysis would only be negative if it were not beneficial or was in any way harmful. So based on that I can say that my tendency to over-analyze things is acting as a sort of road block. Which could be taken as positive or negative(ambiguity ugh). Also, while obsession does not nescessarily make a good scientist, it seems that many who we know now were pretty obsessed with what they were doing. I need to learn to do more by doing less
do it all by doing nothing...I definately get the mind-bridle idea. That was one of the first things I noticed, that when i would try to control my mind that it would definately resist.
"Note the observations -- they are "breaks" in your concentration"
And ....I get it, to hold the mind on a singular focus is concentration. Thank you for not backing off, some times things need to be pounded in. I thought I should focus on say the breath or retaining the asana and note observations. So I was essentially looking for things to observe
Question, do you or would you recomend making a note of breaks as they happen? or should they be noted afterword?@Uni_Verse said
"It could very well me a manifestation of your fear.
"Oh no, do not walk down this path.. you will end up just like them!"
Regardless, it is an issue you need to work through (or you would not have brought it up).
As you will find that either :
(a) that fear did cause the phenomenon, which will stop occurring once you work through the issue
(b) the fear has nothing to do with the phenomenon and there is another underlying issue
(c) it was a solitary occurrence of no real significanceObviously, this is conjecture and you will not find an answer unless you continue your practices
"I am not quite sure where the fear you mention originated in my post. Unless you are saying that the disturbance was caused by an underlying fear of continuing to take control. I have had a theory for a while now that the thing that was keeping me from lucidly dreaming was a fear that I would not be able to control the things or situations I would create. So every time I would become lucid I would wake up. I am feeling like this may have something to do with accepting that the fact that those horrible things are coming out of my mind, and maybe I really cant control it.
and AB
"If you're still functioning"
HA yes my friend, thank you. I have a pretty normal life also somehow I feel like im the only one of my species somedays... But yes functioning I can happily claim to be. What has happened in the past when I indulge the episode I usually end up being happier than I was and also there is a strong recharge of appreciation for things like family. I usually come back to the Idea that im pretty damn happy were I am and i know all those paths I took that led me through rough times helped make me the person I am now who is a person that believes he can be better. Interesting how saying " I can be better" sounds conceited when actually im only admitting I am not perfect.
damn.... never realised how long winded I am. I am already learning to type faster ...
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@IQOB BITH said
"Question, do you or would you recomend making a note of breaks as they happen? or should they be noted afterword?"
Immediately written down after the practice is concluded.