Outdoor offerings
-
Leave the offering alone! Do not touch it!
It was probably for a river spirit and it will bring you bad luck to touch it.
If you don't know who or what the offering is for, (e.g. An angry spirit may be receiving appeasement) you may in fact offend something that would be very difficult to get rid of.
I'm sorry but all the LBRPs in the Universe won't quiet a Lwa or Orisha that has been offended. You will need to see an houngan or babalawo for help in that department.
It is unfortunate that some people that practice this type of magic have no common sense about plastics, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. The spirits don't receiving offerings on plastic for some reason that is unknown to me, so the person's offering may be in vain, and unfortunately it will add to the pollution in the world. Offerings are meant to be left out for a day, then buried in a particular location where the spirit can be communicated with. Unfortunately, many practices of religions practiced in diaspora are almost folk-like because they are passed down mouth to ear and oftentimes much information is lost.
Rocky
-
@HounganRocky said
"Leave the offering alone! Do not touch it!
It was probably for a river spirit and it will bring you bad luck to touch it.
If you don't know who or what the offering is for, (e.g. An angry spirit may be receiving appeasement) you may in fact offend something that would be very difficult to get rid of.
I'm sorry but all the LBRPs in the Universe won't quiet a Lwa or Orisha that has been offended. You will need to see an houngan or babalawo for help in that department.
It is unfortunate that some people that practice this type of magic have no common sense about plastics, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it. The spirits don't receiving offerings on plastic for some reason that is unknown to me, so the person's offering may be in vain, and unfortunately it will add to the pollution in the world. Offerings are meant to be left out for a day, then buried in a particular location where the spirit can be communicated with. Unfortunately, many practices of religions practiced in diaspora are almost folk-like because they are passed down mouth to ear and oftentimes much information is lost.
Rocky"
Pretty superstitious over there huh?
-
No, I am an Houngan I deal with the Lwa and Orishas, I 've seen how they can wreak havoc on people's lives.
-
Allow me to put my experience in to more explicit terms:
Right now I have a client who although was once rich cannot keep a job for the life of him. He is a hard worker and very charismatic individual, but seems to constantly find problems in any place of employment. It turns out that he had performed an act that had offended the Lwa, and the spirit began to systematically destroy his life.
The Lwa are essentially Briatic in Nature, but employ Yetziratic beings to communicate and cause effect in Assiah. When they are offended, they can and will, begin to cut off your sources of life and power. The offender will lose sleep, lose income, and eventually lose their health. I have witnessed what they can do to highly evolved ceremonial magicians with their extremely subtle influences, the magician may not know that they are under the influence of the Lwa until they have gone too far in the wrong direction.
In other words, what appears as superstition on my part, comes from experience in things that you obviously know nothing about.
Rocky
-
I didn't mention that the candles are in glass and metal containers.
I won't touch it. I am still considering leaving a note nearby, though I doubt it would do any good. It's been there several days, no one has touched it. I suppose the park maintenance might clean it up, if so, I hope they are OK.
Thank you
-
@HounganRocky said
"The Lwa are essentially Briatic in Nature, but employ Yetziratic beings to communicate and cause effect in Assiah."
This matches my experience / perception of the Orishas, who appear to be substantially the same type of beings. (In both cases, though, they seem to easily take on Yetziratic trappings - personality characteristics, for example.)
-
"This matches my experience / perception of the Orishas, who appear to be substantially the same type of beings. (In both cases, though, they seem to easily take on Yetziratic trappings - personality characteristics, for example.)"
Yes, Absolutely.
The Yetziratic attributes can be as varied as the individuals working with said beings. There are often agreed upon traits held by each entity, but oftentimes as relationships are established the personalities become more complex and the spirit seems to have a very "human" personality.
The best houngans train these Yetziratic "personalities" in various ways, and eventually they are able to perform great miracles and open doorways to vast knowledge via the Briatic Lwa. Most houngans, however, don't even have the slightest understanding of what they are doing and simply believe that the Lwa are just "like people."
It is useful in practice to treat such beings as people as well as most spirits in general, as it establishes trust and frequency so that the spirit is more willing to work for the magician with little demand.
Rocky
-
@HounganRocky said
"In other words, what appears as superstition on my part, comes from experience in things that you obviously know nothing about.Rocky"
No, no I don't, because the last time I encountered something like that more than a decade ago I told it to F*** off, and I haven't been disturbed by anything like it since.
It's not that I'm completely against the idea of such things, because I encountered plenty of 'spirits' up until my early twenties, and even spent several memorable months obsessed by one such. I've found that fearing them simply gives them more power over my life, and to my mind leaving appeasement offerings simply reinforces that cycle of fear and appeasement.
Hey, maybe it's not my path to work with Allies, or Spirits, or even angels (except Him, but that's another matter).
-
It's not fear. It's respect. Lose your respect for a lion and face the consequences.
-
@HounganRocky said
"It's not fear. It's respect. Lose your respect for a lion and face the consequences."
Well let me put it this way; after I told it where to go it never came back. Of course this could have been something different but I wouldn't know anything about that.
-
"Well let me put it this way; after I told it where to go it never came back. Of course this could have been something different but I wouldn't know anything about that"
Then you may actually not know about the things that I know about. All you know is that a spirit of some unknown order went away when you told it to, which means nothing in the context of the Lwa, Orishas, and offerings made to unknown spirits.
Based on your limited knowledge of such matters you should be slow to judge or gauge the appropriateness of the reaction or the advice given to the OP.
-
@HounganRocky said
"
"Well let me put it this way; after I told it where to go it never came back. Of course this could have been something different but I wouldn't know anything about that"Then you may actually not know about the things that I know about. All you know is that a spirit of some unknown order went away when you told it to, which means nothing in the context of the Lwa, Orishas, and offerings made to unknown spirits.
Based on your limited knowledge of such matters you should be slow to judge or gauge the appropriateness of the reaction or the advice given to the OP."
And how would you go about determining what such a thing might be?
-
Judging from the description of the offering and it's location, I would say that it is most likely an ebbo for an Orisha, possible the Orisha Oshun. Oshun is considered to be a beautiful maiden and is associated with rivers and canals. Most offerings include: sweets, honey, flowers, citrus fruits, and perfume. Now, there is also a Lwa named Erzuli Freda, who receives her offerings in a similar fashion.
Neither of these beings are to be trifled with and both are easily offended if their offerings are disturbed. Furthermore, such wrath of either one of these spirits is far from trivial. Erzulie Freda may cause poverty and disease if offended, and most workers will not attempt to appease her on behalf of a client as she may interpret the placation as an undermining of her will and authority.
That being said, leave things alone if you are unsure. The idea that anything can be dominated because of one's status of being an incarnate human being is silly. Take a look a Roy Horn and "his" tiger Montecore.
-
@HounganRocky said
"Judging from the description of the offering and it's location, I would say that it is most likely an ebbo for an Orisha, possible the Orisha Oshun. Oshun is considered to be a beautiful maiden and is associated with rivers and canals. Most offerings include: sweets, honey, flowers, citrus fruits, and perfume. Now, there is also a Lwa named Erzuli Freda, who receives her offerings in a similar fashion.
Neither of these beings are to be trifled with and both are easily offended if their offerings are disturbed. Furthermore, such wrath of either one of these spirits is far from trivial. Erzulie Freda may cause poverty and disease if offended, and most workers will not attempt to appease her on behalf of a client as she may interpret the placation as an undermining of her will and authority.
That being said, leave things alone if you are unsure. The idea that anything can be dominated because of one's status of being an incarnate human being is silly. Take a look a Roy Horn and "his" tiger Montecore."
So could you classify and Orisha according to something like 777? Would it be a sort of water nymph or more your grendal type monster? And Oshun?
By the way; apologies for my slightly snide tone earlier, we got off on the wrong foot. Obviously I had some sort of reaction to the talk of spirits, probably because my own experiences in that area have been a bit rubbish. I figure it's best to address that reaction by inquiring more sympathetically.
-
I would consider Orishas to be primarily Briatic beings. Oshun would be considered Netzach for example. Yemaya could be Yesod or even placed on the path of Gimel. They are highly complex beings and can be placed throught the tree based upon their "path" or road.
-
@HounganRocky said
"I would consider Orishas to be primarily Briatic beings. Oshun would be considered Netzach for example. Yemaya could be Yesod or even placed on the path of Gimel. They are highly complex beings and can be placed throught the tree based upon their "path" or road."
So can you get an idea of what they might be by there appearance? I've always written them off as Qlippothic shells or 'Dead things' to be honest but it would be interesting to get a detailed account of a few that I encountered.
-
@Archaeus said
"So could you classify and Orisha according to something like 777? Would it be a sort of water nymph or more your grendal type monster? And Oshun? "
There's a table of this in 776 1/2 (Col. 712). I attribute Oshun to Netzach. (However, don't mix her attributes with other beings from the Venus hierarchies. E.g., the amber of Netzach in the King Scale is very close to her favorite yellow, and she's very tuned into copper and the number 7; but she has little room for green, etc.!)
She can be enormously generous and kind, but easily snaps and rends, like a female mountain lion with wounded young nearby, if she feels slighted or her time wasted.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"
@Archaeus said
"So could you classify and Orisha according to something like 777? Would it be a sort of water nymph or more your grendal type monster? And Oshun? "There's a table of this in 776 1/2 (Col. 712). I attribute Oshun to Netzach. (However, don't mix her attributes with other beings from the Venus hierarchies. E.g., the amber of Netzach in the King Scale is very close to her favorite yellow, and she's very tuned into copper and the number 7; but she has little room for green, etc.!)
She can be enormously generous and kind, but easily snaps and rends, like a female mountain lion with wounded young nearby, if she feels slighted or her time wasted."
So it would be safe to say that she has certain Netzachian traits, but unwise to see her as a psuedonym for Venus. In fact I imagine that doing so would probably not be the wisest thing to do.
-
Kinda like being with a woman, who is soaking up every iota of attention and adoration you can stream at her, and telling her repeatedly how much she reminds you of your other girlfriend.
-
@Jim Eshelman said
"Kinda like being with a woman, who is soaking up every iota of attention and adoration you can stream at her, and telling her repeatedly how much she reminds you of your other girlfriend."
So in other words you'd end up being served your balls on a plate for supper.
