College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

Or cacti? Ha

As an update: I was able to get a response from onestarinsight.org, I passed my examination, and will be scheduling my Probationer reception soon. 😀 They weren't my first choice, but at the time I did not know that they also came from Jane Wolfe's lineage; once I e-mailed them I heard back within the week.

(edited for clarity)

In the right state of mind, I perceive them as "polarities that are the same thing". In my normal state of mind though, it's hard to wrap my brain around. RC

@Parzival said

"Fatalism actually takes away our freedom of action because it means we cannot control the outcome of our actions, regardless of our will. It is not true that "IF you had wanted to you could have done otherwise". Fatalism is not determinism, because in a deterministic world its still true that "IF you had wanted otherwise you could have done otherwise" if it was part of that particular world-history. In fatalism this is not true as your actions cannot be controlled."

OTOH fatalism is actually a particular example of causation / determinism. Most simply, it postulates that "fate" is the cause. Then all we have to do is determine (!) what "fate" means 👿

But there are subtle differences in seeming synonyms based on their origins. "Fate" is a word with a history of prophesy, has a root meaning of "what was spoken." That is, "It will be, because someone said so!" "Destiny," in contrast, is simply a destination - "That's where I'll end up!" - and carries a very different emotional feel.

Metaphysically, I've long seen Thelema as resolving the seeming divergences between these ideas. My own articulation is: "I'm a total believer in pre-destination because the universe is absolutely causal, and the causative agent is the deepest, most central aspect of myself, beyond anything usually called 'myself,' and it is omnipotent."

Try different things. Thelema has plenty of ritual material. Keep track of what works, what does not and what effects the practices have.
I tend to like to see results shortly rather than do something for years and never have any result.

thank you for clarifying that

I've found the texts to be very illuminating but I have the same problem with the followers of the fourth way (at least, most of those that I've met), I feel there is an unnecessary rigidity to them and I find it hard to be relaxed in their presence. I've also felt there was something in the texts that perhaps they were missing (that's not to say I got it either). I'm quite in love with both the systems of Crowley and Gurdjieff, and I too find them to illuminate one another (even if finding the parallels isn't easy sometimes) and I'm quite sure they are two systems I want to pursue at the same time. But there is still that something about the followers of the fourth way that doesn't sit right with me.

@Uni_Verse said

"
@Jim Eshelman said
"Why not ask: What if it were your True Will not to do your True Will?"

Makes me think of those old science fiction shows where some evil robot or computer would be defeated by a logical fallacy."

Robot, ruach... take your pick 😄

I have found the Complete M&M System of the AA to be the best source of "where to go, what to do," for myself, who also cannot travel to a Temple. Obviously you need access to the Libers to fully immerse in it, but I also found that "The Tree of Life," and "The Golden Dawn" to be excellent sources of material to study and give one direction. Obviously the AA system is much more refined, but you have to start somewhere, and these books seem to be more readily available, and more importantly, in print, so you don't have astronomical costs.

@Tony said

"It seems to me that there were periods of time when Kelly was deceiving Dee and that there were times when it appears that a valid communication is taking place.

I don't know if the wife swap communication was one or the other but I bet Kelly had a great deal more interest in swapping wives than Dee or the Angels did 😄"

Perhaps it was God like telling Abraham to sacrifice his son; it was a genuine communication, but Dee was being "tested" and was supposed to resist the temptation 😄

In his position and from accounts of Kelley's character, I would have been very wary of anything that didn't have unimpeachable evidence of "praeterhuman" origins. At least I hope I would have.

From the account in in Benjamin Woolley's biogreaphy, Dee seems to have been rather credulous at times.

OP

Well, Crowley never rid himself of monism so I will take Liber Aleph as his personal view.

And as for "shall" rather than "is", ever considered that this is not a command but a prophecy?

@Parzival said

"Hello everyone, my name is Parzival and I'm an enormous kitten from outer space."

Welcome, P. Could we offer you a small dish of the Milk of the Stars?

@RifRaf said

"I always could seperate my visions from thoughts, or just randomness, by the idea that they are something that I have never seen, nor thought of, and come at a time when I have filled some prerequisite that would lead to what some call visions.

For example, I do alot of Enochian work, and have been for years. I simply close my eyes for scrying (eye-lid scrying). I get those little specs of color, maybe a thought pops into my head of something I dealt with at work, and takes form as imagery. Those I don't really consider visions. But when I see something (this is from when I first scryed TEX) like a road with tons of crosses on the side, and two doves fly off in synch and pass by me, while hearing auditory things that I can't possibly think of in my normal conciousness, I consider those legit visions.

Hmm, does that make sense? 😕"

Yes that makes perfect sense. I get a similar process happen to me, at first the visions are very fleeting indeed as they form out of the blue spotted swirly light that I start to see, then it is as if I have momentarily gone semi conscious then a full vision occurs that is not a product of a visualized conscious thought passing through the mind. Sometimes the visions are static but more often than not, I appear to be moving within them.

The trick is trying to remember what you have seen, once you are fully conscious again and trying to remember what you have heard as the sounds seem unintelligible to conscious thought. This is why it is a good idea to have someone else there to record down what you say you see, and hear