LBRP Questions

MMe

"Where is to be visualize the hexagram?
At which point exactly?"

I did the question, a bit stupid , because I realized, a few days ago, that in English it says "in the column" while in the translation that I have studied and used for years, is "above me", and I, therefore, visualize the hexagram above me.
Then I read the book of David Shoemaker(I also have your book, but does not say anything about it), and he says to visualize the hexagram at the heart.

So I'm a bit confusing...

@Fr Cognosco cum Lux
Thanks for the answer.
For the East question look here jim's answer.

Jim Eshelman

There are variations.

MMe

@Jim Eshelman said

"There are variations. "

Thanks.

So if I visualize the hexagram above me, is it to visualize one below me too?
As a reference, the blazing sphere, visualized during the Qabalistic Cross, is to display a few inches above the head, the hexagram has to stay at that height, or higher?

Jim Eshelman

@MMe said

"So if I visualize the hexagram above me, is it to visualize one below me too?"

That was Crowley's recommendations, yes.

"As a reference, the blazing sphere, visualized during the Qabalistic Cross, is to display a few inches above the head, the hexagram has to stay at that height, or higher?"

No specific height is specified. It always seemed to me that it was much higher than that - marking "the height" per se, with the other at a balanced distance below. (I never visualized it thus in physical space, so I can't give you anything concrete about distance - by the time I hit that point in the ritual, I'm so removed from any physical orientation that it actually never occurred to me to think of it in terms of distance. In over 30 years, you're the first person I recall ever asking anything about distance.)

Gnosomai Emauton

For me, the Hexagram forms the walls of a column that surrounds me and extends infinitely up and down. When I transition from building the pentagram circle to invoking the archangels, the circle forms a sphere around me so the hexagram column does intersect that sphere above and below me and forms an impression on the sphere. To that extent, in my version, the hexagrams exist above and below at the same distance as the pentagrams exist around me.

Fr Cognosco cum Lux

So...
Isn't the hexagram representative of the HGA and the Sun just above you?
Is it possible(as much as anything is possible) to attain K&CHGA via LBRP exclusively, without Abramelin or even BRH? Recommended?

Gnosomai Emauton

Beyond my pay grade but... fwiw, afaik anything is a possible route to k&chga. Even intentional overuse of acronyms. If lbrp is a powerful ritual for you (probably with some emendations since you don't want it banishing your hga along with everything else) write a magickal oath and put it to work. Invoke often!

ForceFire

Has anyone ever visualized the pentagrams before them vs drawing them. I imagine my hand to
be at the center and use the appropriate color and intent.

I mean the Pentagram is just as created as any other right? But I suppose you could argue that the action
of drawing it makes things alittle more manifest.

Hermitas

Yes, actually performing it is always simply that much more powerful in my experience. It is the World of Action that gets included or not.

Performing it mentally is "enough for your average day," but no more, in my opinion.

ForceFire

The " Star Ruby" uses these same visual techniques. So now are we just talking about intent?

Jim Eshelman

The sequence of tracing the lines distinguishes exactly which forces are being invoked or banishing.

ForceFire

When I do the "star ruby" I draw a banishing pentegram line per line. I can also do this with my technique described above. Tracing over then lines over and over in the appropriate direction until it is burning in my mind. My biggest set back is doubt since these things can be so subtle for me.

Jim Eshelman

@ForceFire said

"When I do the "star ruby" I draw a banishing pentegram line per line."

But there's no need in the Star Ruby, since it's just a bazooka blow-away banishing. Totally different concept, and a significantly different ritual in purpose and consequence.

ForceFire

Well LBRP was my technique for the invocation. I was just making reference to the "Star Ruby" as an example of how I can simply imagine a pentagram.

Hermitas

Well, yeah. And I've had experiences where just imagining the LRP strongly was an incredibly strong experience of it.

But, imo, that last level, to the realm of physical action, completes the weight of it. It is a physical act of Will. The final blow.

Hermitas

But like for everyday use, in my experience, going through it in your head works wonders, but when stuff starts going haywire, you kick it up a notch.

ForceFire

I am talking about LRP with the ONLY difference in creating the pentagrams. Plenty of others rituals use imagination as means to an end.
When I do the "Middle Pillar" do I have to draw circles at all the points? (No)

I am not saying I am right. I just wanna know why I am wrong.

Hermitas

Nobody said you were "wrong." You got my opinion.

Experiment with it. I know what works for me.