College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

well yes your right but, also i would like to note i believe it was crowley that said you must 1st be a master of magick & meditation before it would be time for one to become a 9th degree, the simple in out and then orally collecting its physical production wouldnt be needed to do that.

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so i was wondering how other people interpete the 9th degree, not magick in general, which can be a vast subject, but what the 9th degree is, and means? i though am a OTO member, am no where near that level. not to mention it seems to me it is super rarely even given out, and from what i hear is not more of a token given to friends of the master. but whatever the case that is neither here nor there, the question is which did crowley mean or the forefathers of the OTO mean by the meaning of the 9th degree and how its employeed?

i would love to hear your opinions!

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Gunner

yeah i have read about crowley being aganst abortion. now i am wondering if this also had alot to do with the 9th degree, and all that stuff about the sacredness of sex. i dont know, but from reading about his view of sex especially concerning its magickal-ness, i myself have changed my opinion of abortion. not in that i dont think women should have the right, just i would be much more inclined to want to keep the baby., then i was before my studies on the magickal aspect of sex.

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i think its a great idea to go to the OTO, and very quite possibly there maybe members there that could help you. i can tell you the 1st time i went to a magickal group of ppl, whihc was the OTO, i had been practicing magick for about 7 years. and i thought they would think i was some type of magick genius or guru, boy was i wrong. but through them i learnt most the rituals i was doing i was fucking alot of stuff up, as well as saying almost every magickal name completely wrong. my desicion to check out the OTO was a life changing one i will never regret.
but with that said i was lucky enough to check out a very wonderful OTO body, and since then i have seen bodies that was much less than wonderful. each body has its own feel, is own life. so go check one out and see how it goes. there is far so much to gain and the only thing to loose is the time you spent checking it out.
1 other thing i would recommend is to go to at least 3 events before deciding if this is for you. give it a chance. and you should know within 3 events.

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the equinox is still in print and the cheapest place to find it, believe it or not is walmart.com. i got mine there for around 200$ this was a few years ago but i assume its still there they have most crowley books at a very low price.

WOW! you didnt like william blake?? thats where i took all my OTO inits so far, and i find them very friendly and great people, as well as some very knowledgable people. but that was my experience. and each star may experience things diffferently.

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does anyone know why the fool and charioteer would be seen as the redeemer??? thanks for any help!

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at the present moment jim i am in virginia, not in NJ where all my books are. but if my memory serves me correctly it was found mostly concerning the fool. i remember it was definetly spoken of in the book of thoth concerning the fool. and i think as well with the charioteer.

thanks for any input!!!!

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G.

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the redeemer is spoken of in many places in different thelemic magickal texts. but to me, he is very unknown, i have seen him attributed to jesus, but i dont know.

can anyone help me understand who the redeemer is???

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you know somewhere around here there is like a thread with a bunch of comments about this, i think its called the vision of the HGA, idk.. but there is alot of great comments on it, by everyone as well as jim!

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43. Let the Scarlet Woman beware! If pity and compassion and tenderness visit her heart; if she leave my work to toy with old sweetnesses; then shall my vengeance be known. I will slay me her child: I will alienate her heart: I will cast her out from men: as a shrinking and despised harlot shall she crawl through dusk wet streets, and die cold and an-hungered.

44. But let her raise herself in pride! Let her follow me in my way! Let her work the work of wickedness! Let her kill her heart! Let her be loud and adulterous! Let her be covered with jewels, and rich garments, and let her be shameless before all men!

these verses in chapter 3 paint a picture i don think i completely understand, in that she must kill her heart, does this mean not love???
how do others interpete these verses?

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Gunner

no i have had differnet experiences when it comes to your friends lover, but with thelemites its different, i dont know if so was a thelemite. though i do not think any real attainment with ones HGA could come through having sex with a human. i only see it as training your mind to see your HGA more and more everyday, and to see it as more apart of your life.

well yeah of course, but i try to see my HGA with in every event in my life, though i fail miserably most of the time (LOL). i think the more we can think about our HGA, and find connections in life to our HGA, the closer we come to our HGA. but i mean these are just things i sometimes try to analyse in the back of my mind, to make events make since in the long run on the middle path.

but thats for your opinion bro

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i definetly definetly totally know and love and respect my lover for the star that they are, but i also kinda see what is happening as hints from my HGA. only hints i respect her as a person and an individual star, but all is under the control of my angel for the purpose of my greaterment, or at least i believe that. if she leaves me it is cause my HGA needs to teach me something, or take me another way, or her use of my betterment is over.
i mean with all this said this is in the very very back of my mind, most of the time, but for me it makes all make perfect sense. i could be wrong though. maybe its just a way for me to cope as well?

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no i totally agree, i mean a react with her in her humanness, her human mistakes just as mine, and all that. its just i know though i do not understand, that she is also a vessel of my god. but i can not see this, the only time i even normally get a glimpse of this, or at least so i can say with my present lover, is during sex, and sexual involvement. my joy is in her joy, and i see this as satisfying not only her but also my god, as my god satisfies me. but all other times, truthful i can almost never see my god in her.

is this kinda what u are saying, or am i missing your point jim????

thanks

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yeah i mean though i can not fully comprehend this, i believe that all experience is a one on one relationship with god, and if she is the vessel of my god, then in fact she is my god.
but i mean these are things i think it is hard for the mind to grasp, and maybe some may disagree, but i totally feel that the more we can associate our mind to our HGA the better our relatioship with our HGA will become until we finally attain K & C w/ our HGA.

any opinions??

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well, hmm good question jim, one girl, who i wasnt in love with and who wasnt a thelemite, kinda shrugged and i think might have took it as a insult.
but generally thelemites that i have dated at least told me that that was a really cool idea, and thought it may help my attain knowledge & conversation with my HGA. i think (of course i am very very low on the path to when i attain this) that it would best help myself attain this, by trying to connect all with my HGA, this might not be good, but sorta like the oath of the abyss "i will interpete every event as an interaction with god and my soul." so i kinda try to see alot of events, not every, as an interaction with me and my HGA, is in my HGA is communicating with me trying to teach me something, or make me feel his/her love.

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i have told lovers before this, that my holy guardian angel has chose them to be a vessel of my angels love to me. that the emotions i feel towards them, is really on a plane that can not really completely be understood, is emotions that me and my angel are exchanging and my lover is only a medium of this exchange. the emotions are tiphareth(heart) heaven, and the sexual pleasure is the lower, malkuth/ earth. so that my lover has become a palace in where heaven and earth is combined...... i being her and she/lover the vessel of my angel heaven. the VAV and final HEH in union. there is much more qabalistic symbolism that can be found within this symbolism, or at least i have found.

also this goes back to ancient egypt where people would go to a holy whore in order to experience the bliss of god. this was not a whore house but a holy temple they went unto. i wonder what joys they acaully experienced, did they only experience the lesser love with these holy whores of sex, or did they acaully for a moment in time fall in love, and with in that love experience the love of there god.

any opinions?????

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so do you think on the magickal level, a girl on her period much increases the success of the ritual, than if the sex magick was done with her while not having her period?

back in earily 2004 when i 1st start to experience with sex magick, mostly just sigil 9th degree work, me and my girlfriend only did this form of magick when she was on her period due to it was work with the fluids and she was afraid this work done at anyother time may get her pregnant. so i really can not accurately look back at my magickal diaries and see if the rate of success is better on or off there period.

but i must agree with you, for some odd reason it greatly increases the emotions & lust during the act of sex, for both the male and the female. and the smell always reminds me of a sweet very sugary wine. LOL

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Gunner

i was also wondering why in liber AL does this blood of the moon(menstral blood) come before host of heaven (semen)?