@d.b.stone Haha I appreciate your flattery! I'd hardly measure my intellectual wanderings as sophisticated, nonetheless, I will not tell you that you're wrong As far as defining Magick goes, I generally point to Crowley's definition: "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will". Volumes upon volumes have been written by others much smarter than me about what that might mean. For simplicity, I will specify that I am referring to a process of applying symbolic knowledge to subconscious patterning in order to align multiple levels of being. With these levels acting in alignment, there are more powers available to the individual to realize their goal. Given that Consciousness/Divinity/Source/Orgone/Astral Light (etc.) requires some type of symbol to interface and interact with the practitioner, Crowley's definition could be interpreted as the Art of manipulating Symbols to induce a change in Consciousness. Ideally, these changes in Consciousness have a greater purpose (perhaps attaining the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel) that they are working towards. I must say it is quite impressive that you met Motta, as well as have written 10,000 pages on such a subject. Assuming that we are referring to the same idea when I say Magick and you say M, I must say that I am jealous of such an accomplishment. I have not been so lucky to find the time to write 10,000 pages. That being said, I must apologize. I'm not sure if I am the intended audience, simply because I am not of the level of Motta, and I do not have enough free time to give your work the attention it needs. Nonetheless, these sound like valuable ideas, and I am intrigued. You seem well read, and I appreciate that you've put so much thought into your ideas. As I'm sure you know, there's an abundance of half-baked on the internet and finding someone who is genuinely interested in discussing these subjects can be quite difficult. I think Crowley would agree that the goal of spiritually enlightened beings should be to liberate the rest of the species. Crowley pretty explicitly claims that the Law is for All. He's also written an essay called "Duty" that expresses Crowley's vision on how to realize a Thelemic society. One of my personal favorites is De Lege Libellum, in which Crowley describes the four core Thelemic values. In my opinion, if someone truly takes this paper to heart, then they are actively working for the greater good of the human race. For clarification, I'm not sure that I use Bennett-Crowley Qabalah either. I suppose that a more accurate description would be Crowley-Eshelman Qabalah. I primarily reference Jim Eshelman's writings (specifically 776 1/2) for Qabalistic information. I will admit that because Eshelman built off what Crowley wrote, perhaps Bennett (I assume Alan Bennett) is linked to this. However, Jim has done excellent work to clarify and strengthen 776 1/2's dialect of Qabalah. It is certainly not what Crowley was using in his day Even in the Qabalah, the primary doctrine is that of marrying the Daughter to the Son so that they can become the Queen and the King. The Daughter is often used as a term to describe the material world. Earlier Kabbalistic doctrine said that the Daughter was in exile, must be redeemed, and that the messiah will not come until that very Daughter is redeemed. This doctrine seems to imply that "saving the world" is the goal of it all, though we certainly can't do it on our own. Instead, I view the "messiah" as the world consciousness that will arise from a society in right relation with Nature and the Divine. Furthermore, Nuit states that it is our duty to conquer the Hierophantic task as that will heal the world (verses 50-53 of Chapter 1). Sounds like we're in pretty strong agreement with each other!

I can't speak directly to the position of HOGD, but I have heard that Paul Foster Case (trained by A∴O∴, successor of HOGD) felt that advancement beyond 5=6 was a matter between the initiate and their angel. The supernal sephiroth were not thought to be beyond the reach of living humans, but the training for it was beyond the reach of B.O.T.A.

Aye?

861 7:7 If a mod sees this, thread can be locked.

I have found it useful to know what I am good at, develop areas where the skills are useful for my life, and employ professionals where neither of those things are true. Jim's instructions on how to make simple Tau Robe are solid, I have used the methodology. I now pay professionals when there is a need for a Robe.

Very nice commentary, but regarding 88: I think what he meant was more like the folk tale where someone declares: "Mail me a dollar and I'll show you how to become rich", and when he got enough mails, he responded to them with "Do as I did."

@LD330 said " I don't know if it's empty speculation to think about paths for humanity-- I think that's a very important thing to think about. Not only is a mass awakening possible, it's incipient. If we don't dream about it, we won't get it. " Fully agreed with If we don't dream about it, we won't get it. I appreciate you opening this thread, I too feel strongly drawn to meditate on this subject; the reply above was addressing the tendency to loose balance in this, a note for you as well as myself. Keep the philosophy grounded! "I don't think any action whatsoever can be taken without the entire scope of humanity being involved-- we are a system, not individual." We are both! - simultaneously, in each instance of experience (the interchange of Had and Nu constitutes what we perceive/experience as experience ). The error of philosophy of the past was the approach of either/or - the Aeon of the Child is the birth of both-at-once awareness.

Everyone will disagree with me, but, in actuality, truth, reality, the big cahoona, the Golden Dawn exists internally. The outer image of it is just a means to point one within.

I'm a student of magick and Mooji too. There are some good threads in here about 'direct path' advaita/zen methods vs 'gradual path' magickal/mystical schools... There's an interview of Adyashanti by Ken Wilber's Integral Naked on torrents that covers the pros and cons.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckb9Ltb7duU&t=5

Physiological gender and practical gender are different things. Jim, when I hear you saying "usually male", what I really hear is that, generally speaking, the formula of interaction between the aspirant and the HGA has the Angel as positive and the aspirant as negative. More likely than not we are "receiving" something in any case, and I don't know about any of you, but in the low, sexual parallel of what we call "knowledge and conversation", I have definitely been on the receptive end of the interaction with both men and women...so do whatever you want with that.

To find your Opinion, you just have to "make" Your Opinion =/= Asisa's Opinion e.g. Asisa is too powerful!!!! (<=>) Opinion of Aleister and his Gods (<=/=>) All other Gods So Me (e) Scribe (e) Liber 65:= www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-sIqlJmkIc i am not Neo; q.e.d.

Many are not satisfied with something so subjective.

Simply write a letter describing your desire. Include whatever you feel is relevant for that.

Nice point! I'm just trying to understand M.T. sign as good as I can since I lack the actual experience this sign represents. Reading Crowley and comparing his writings helps to certain degree but It can also be confusing or I'm simply not ready/able to understand. Thank you for sharing your opinion with me!

I think the post-enlightenment sadana's as you described are accurate Hermitas. The Non Dual path - the closest to the Tao in philosophy and acti... practice - deals with these in the same way that you break through in the first place by staying put as NOT. Nothing can harm thee if thou art not. In practice Ramana and the great sages stayed put by being well out of sight for many years, dealing with these monstrous forces by being not. They certainly didn't teach or engage with the world at these phases and in the West, we have to engage with the world all the time. Even in India - in the sacred Temple people kept throwing things at 'the boy sage' in disgust. He then had to be put in the catacombs area of the temple and semi-cared for, (if at all other than some rice ) by monks . e ended up with all sorts of maladies of the body while his mind was elsewhere. He had to be completely looked after for years. He hadn't even physically developed his body or brain when his entrance to the Abyss began. Bodhidarma stared at a wall for ten years well after his initial enlightenment , I forget his name off the top of my head but one of the greatest Zen monks broke through , left the temple to go and teach, came back after a day and stayed in the temple for another 30 years , stating that he was no-where near ready. So , I think the path of the AA with it's focus on containing and experiencing these forces before the floodgates really open is a much more sensible and gentle way of doing the work. Ok we may not feel it's gentle when half-way through Probationer , let alone later, but compared to what holy men have had to suffer in the past...