College of Thelema: Thelemic Education

@Frater 639 said

"Say something less neutral? I don't mind..."

Tarot was created with the Court Cards aligning with the letters of YHVH. The attributions of those letters to the elements is clear from at least a century before Tarot's creation, as is the attribution of Yod to the father figure of the set.

93,

@Gnosomai Emauton said

"it's not the inherent rightness or wrongness of the position that is the problem, it's the inflexibility and inability to evolve through discussion that seems to be the issue."

Yes. And even further, it's all just different perspectives of the same phenomena. These different perspectives are the challenge AND the beauty of multiple ego-images and narrations, according to one's unique experience. But it is really all illusion when not inclusive of ALL perspective. That's where the inflexibility turns into atavism, and a NEW perspective isn't reached or BORN. See every dualistic metaphor and subsequent joining of opposites known to man. It's LIFE and CREATION in a nutshell. 😀

I'll leave this here, since your comments about debate and dialogue really resonated with me - and it reminded me of the opposites coming together/not being able to exist without each other (relativity). We're way OT(?) but what the hell 😀 Maybe you'll enjoy the passage (excerpt from the 3rd Aethyr Liber 418, regarding the Lord of Illusion (the Magus - ATU 1):

*And now, in the midst of the Aethyr, I behold that god. He hath a thousand arms, and in each hand is a weapon of terrible strength. His face is more terrible than the storm, and from his eyes flash lightnings of intolerable brilliance. From his mouth run seas of blood. Upon his head is a crown of every deadly thing. Upon his forehead is the upright Tau, and on either side of it are signs of blasphemy. And about him clingeth a young girl, like unto the King's daughter that appeared in the ninth Aethyr. But she is become rosy by reason of his force, and her purity hath tinged his black with blue.

They are clasped in a furious embrace, so that she is torn asunder by the terror of the god; yet so tightly clingeth she about him, that he is strangled. She hath forced back his head, and his throat is livid with the pressure of her fingers. Their joint cry is an intolerable anguish; yet it is the cry of their rapture, so that every pain, and every curse, and every bereavement, and every death of everything in the whole universe, is but one little gust of wind in that tempest-scream of ecstasy. [This image is to be found painted (usually on silk, and repeated in varying forms, often representing the planets, about its central glory) upon the sacred Banners which adorn the shrines of Tibet].

And an Angel speaks: "Behold, this vision is utterly beyond thine understanding. Yet shalt thou endeavour to unite thyself with the dreadful marriage-bed."

So I am torn asunder, nerve from nerve and vein from vein, and more intimately---cell from cell, molecule from molecule, and atom from atom, and at the same time all crushed together. (Write down that the tearing asunder is a crushing together.) All the double phenomena are only two ways of looking at a single phenomenon; and the single phenomenon is Peace. There is no sense in my words or in my thoughts. "Faces half-formed arose." This is the meaning of that passage; they are attempts to interpret Chaos. But Chaos is Peace Cosmos is the War of the Rose and the Cross. That was a "half- formed face" that I said then. All images are useless.

Note:

Atu I. This is Mayan, the Great Magician, he who has created the Dyad (ב = 2) and thus made possible the conception of Opposition, and hence of "Evil". He is to be distinguished from Chokma, the creative Mercury who transmits the Essence of Kether as a Logos, that Kether may become intelligible to Himself through Binah. This lower Mercury asserts the Dyad as Reality, and denies alike Kether and the Ain. Hence its issue is in Materialism.*

@Gnosomai Emauton said

"It progresses. Some new insights gained on the structure of the ritual, more trust in my own intuitive abilities. I still find that it has a more powerful effect when I restrict it to the mental/astral (i.e. closed-eye visualizations in a meditative asana) so my current work is in getting the physical performance of it in the mundane plane up to a similar level of strength. Tough to do when one must create the pentagrams and Archangels on and within one's closet and desk. "

That's perfect. Perdurabo! 93 93/93

Allow me to expand on my previous comment:

Subtraction as Addition:
1 - 2 = 1 + (-2) = -1

We are considering the Cup & The Sword
The Cup is Water, the Sword is Water & Fire
If the Cup is Synthesis
Then the Sword, Analysis is composed of Synthesis & ~Synthesis (Fire being the "opposite" of Water)

So, synthesis occurs, uniting a subject and object, creating a new object which contains within it the previous subject.

The nature of reality is will. The very essence of creation is an act of will and each and every convultion of emanation is also a subsequent expression of that will. This supercedes any physics. the k&c of hga is the step one takes to realize contact with the will of the universe which is what all is. once one is in touch, as it were, with this great expansive will one sees what one must do(ones true will) this is done forth with as a person thus seeing their true will is at this point of the mind to achieve it. This dynamic is the nature of the universe. the nature of reality. In other words the scientist who does not work with the concept of supernal will (that which causeth kether to concentrate) is working with lower seferah ie lower yetzeratic and Assiac. And though the discoveries of Einstien etal. seam sublime they are not as true as the statement that 'will is the nature of the universe'. Also the discovery of that will and the method to do this constitute the most important activity and the most stupendous goal. The Theories of science in the vien of logical positivism and empirisism are doomed to be but the constructors of crude assiac tools and manipulations which pale in comparison to the subtle spiritual devices and understandings of the higher aspects of the tree which are handed down and also discovered through the methods of adepts.
When it was asked what is the nature of the universe i wonder if it was meant 'from a perspective of modern scientific thought' or wasit meant the 'perspective of scientific illuminism'. the latter has a valuable answer but the former is limited in scope and grasp. empirical science has its place but until it changes its tune that place is in hod and yesod mostly in the assiac and lower yetzeratic.

some would say love is the nature of the universe and at least there they are in the right ballpark. However quarks, muons, gluons, hadrons, string theory... are all side notes to be left behind as one ascends the tree.

that is not to say you can't use the discoveries, ideas and language of the empirical sciences to springboard ideas and abate the doubtful nature of the mind (thru using the scientific description of odd occult ideas) as it passes the lower grades. eventually the study of what stuff is is subsumed into more sublte realization and such things are no longer of value.

93/93

93,

"

As far as the use of Truth, Crowley used Truth to refer to aspects of Neshama. So, this could be roughly called an Act of Neshama...the place where opposites are combined (in this case, a desired goal with a seemingly opposite action to achieve it) and the Ruach is transcended. He describes an Act that could be used to refine the method of transcending reason, and encourages the student to devise and execute their own experiments.

From Little Essays Towards Truth:

Briefly, Truth is an idea of a supra-rational order, pertaining to Neschamah, not to Ruach. That all rational conceptions imply that we know Truth, and that Truth is in their propositions, only shows that these so-called rational ideas are not really rational at all...

...all the symbols are interchangeable, for each one containeth in itself its own opposite. And this is the great Mystery of the Supernals that are beyond the Abyss. For below the Abyss, contradiction is division; but above the Abyss, contradiction is Unity. And there could be nothing true except by virtue of the contradiction that is contained in itself... (From the Vision and the Voice)

Truth is our Path, and Truth is our Goal; ay! there shall came to all a moment of great Light when the Path is seen to be itself the Goal; and in that hour every one of us shall exclaim:

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life!"

[...]

Then shall ye understand what is Truth, for ye shall understand your Selves, and YE ARE TRUTH!
"

I love this explanation of the title, it makes a lot of sense now. I have yet still to read this book, it is on my reading list (which is about a million titles). If this technique was meant to be put into practice I would imagine that the person must have complete control over their thought patterns, I would assume Liber III vel Jugorum would help with this as a necessary requisite. I would have loved to see the students letters printed along side Crowley's, much like Lon DuQuettes recent work "Ask Baba Lon". If we knew her thought pattern we would have more of an idea why Crowley is suggesting many things in magick without tears. Does anyone know if they can be found anywhere?

93, 93/93.

@Los said

"Each claim has a burden of proof."

No they don't. You do.

Well... I guess my lack of satisfaction with it probably has its source in the difference between equation and correspondence.

Eh... I guess it is what is.

@Frater 639 said

"Happy Jupiter Day! 😀 "

happy saturn day 😄

I think this is going to be another interesting discussion here. At this time I do accept that the mind is not the same as the experience of feelings. I am going to do my best to articulate my position, but this might be a rough exercise

"

But we perceive, grade, and evaluate our shared environment based on our "rawness" (emotional feelings) of being -- at least, it is a convenient model -- and it is supported by data that correlates with our recent neurobiogical models. Our thought-forms are directly related to our raw feeling. "

Absolutely that our 'feelings' highly influence our thoughts and mind and color our environment, no argument there. I believe the relationship between our mind and feelings is somewhat dialectical (although only in the mind) and personally I also believe that this relationship is analogous with the relationship between the soul and the spirit, meaning that feelings and thinking mind are mundane expressions of the relationship of a higher order of being.

"

From an Eastern "mystical/spiritual" perspective, this is why the yogi aims to control klishta/aklishta vrittis (colored or raw-emotion infused thought patterns). From a Western "medical/physiological" perspective, thought-forms combine with chemical releases from the adrenal system which "colors" thought-forms and also creates memories. This can be considered both input/output from a "mind" perspective (collectively and individually) with material correlation. "

makes sense

"

The more that we return to these thought-forms, the more they affect our behavior -- which is physically/materialistically measurable through long term potentiation (synaptic "highways" getting larger when viewed by EEG) seeing the way we think -- and it directly affects our neuroplasticity. This is backed up conveniently by quantitative data that corresponds with qualitative conditions in modern "hard" scientific research.

So, we have raw feeling dictating (to a certain degree) mind -- also our genetic predisposition contributes to this as well. Now, we can dispute it, but we had better come up with a better model that can describe the phenomena more eloquently. That "source" for mind that you mentioned can be ontologically ideal like a God, group-mind, what have you -- but we need to consistently show, in any functional model, that it is likely that when A happens, B will probably happen shortly thereafter. Convenience, relevance, and probability I think are the main factors when choosing a model. What do you think?"

Not sure if I accept that B must follow A principle in a modeled relationship to the mind/body experience. We both enjoy Rupert - he actually changed my mind here - minds may 'pull us' from the future. Sometimes B happens before A. Do I misunderstand you here?

"

Why not look at it both ways? I can see a God (Mars) as a group-mind entity (war) but I can also see the effects physiologically individually (hightened serotonin/cortisol release, increased synaptic activity, etc.) and collectively (death and injury) and mentally both personally (PTSD) or collectively (celebration of victory and patriotism). Do you agree with this short synopsis? Which is God and which is group-mind and which is just material and which is only ideal? I'd even make an argument, that the more a group-mind identifies with this "God" (or interacts with this morphogenetic field), the stronger these qualities get over time from the view of epigenetics. Would you come to that same conclusion too? The evidence seems to point that way, so using a little intuition... 😉 "

I really like your description of a 'god' being a group mind entity (why didnt you bring that up in the 'Spirits' thread? that would have been very useful there!) I follow with interest your synopsis here

"

Anyway, magick aims to control the same thing as yoga -- bring this union with "God" under will."

resonance under will 😄

"

Not to say that neurobiological models are the ultimate truth, but it is a model that can be further refined and has helped a great deal in interpreting morphogenetic field theory -- which was modeled on biology and cell cooperation that create systems larger than the sum of its parts, like organs (like the brain! 😀) and whatnot. So, we need both ideal AND material."

AGREE!!!! yes - we can also lump 'ideal' in with 'spiritual' and we find ourselves with another 'dialectic' between material and spiritual, mind and feelings, spirit and soul...there is really 'one' relationship there over all (ideally speaking 😄) would you agree?

"

Individually, emotion laden thought-forms are VERY POWERFUL and contribute a great deal to behavior and subsequent action (depression, elation, etc.). "

Yes, this is actually something that I become more painfully aware of the older I get 😄

"

Same goes for collective minds through memes (supported by mirror neuron research) -- think patriotism, family, money and other symbols/talismans etc. Magickally, energized thought-forms/spirits/egregores are extremely potent. They can DEFINITELY cause change -- hopefully, in accordance with will. Morphogenetic fields are a great model to explain these changes...is this how you feel? Do you subscribe to morphogenetic field theory and have you tried out your own experiments? I'd love to hear some examples. 😀 "

we speaky same language here my friend.

I had an extraordinary direct encounter with what you are describing here, almost 10 years ago to the date. It lasted everyday for three months. I can't say it happened from experimenting or even asking for it (although my previous years of work and exploration prepared me and it was quite aligned with my true will) I directly encountered with and had a relationship with such a field. What was more incredible was that I was able to attract others to this field, and then they would be able to tap into this experience and help grow the field, and the 'thought form' or 'spirit' around it. Fields of synchronicity were present - as the field grew and because it was of perfect harmony, it become aligned with all other field harmonies.

Changed my life and who I am to this day.

Question, are you familiar with the magician Phillip Farber and his work "Meta- Magick"?

I think you will like it. His approach to magick is very harmonious with my field experience.

Also I would not mind reading an experience of yours here too.

"

But, more importantly, what did my long-winded soliloquy make you think of? 😀 "

perfect harmony 😄

"

Well, I think individual mind can be considered a point-field. I think "minds" are point-fields of point-fields - like a gigantic matrix - they alternate based on interaction of positive/negative, yin-yang, taking things in or pushing them out, fire/water, etc. It's getting these to harmonize (align with frequency, to use an electric analogy) that is necessary when creating a successful morphogenetic "field of points". And, of course, there are fields within fields (or, from a qabalistic perspective, sephirot within each sephira) building up into the "ultimate" field that is infinite. However, any field has to have the proper receptacle to magnetize, collectively or individually, to carry the analogy further...and it is a matter of scale and identification..."

you are still making sense to me

"

Rupert is awesome -- I think his views are not unlike a lot of ontological idealism -- so I agree with the philosopher title. I think we need both -- back in the day, Einstein and Bergson had some debates -- two totally different expressions, one more "science" and the other more "philosophical" -- but they had many similar views. So, I share your resonance with some of his ideas. 😀 "

yes, I agree we need both. I think the fact that we have both sides of another dialectic leads us to find something more profound than either of them separately.

looking forward to more of this!

enjoy your saturn day

Rhodiola rosea is an maoi inhibitor, but a very weak one. If I were you, I would take straight up syrian rue extract or syrian rue. You only need a gram or two for antidepressant effects more powerful than prescription maois and ssri antidepressants.

As for your opiate "effect", I would either keep the rosea, (less likely for me to do than the next suggestions,) or take Kratom, Passionflower, Poppy, Papaver Rhoeas (red Poppy,) Clitoria ternatea, Valerian, Hops, or one of the many other herbs that mimic opiates or actually act directly upon the opiate receptors.

I would not suggest you do Poppy or Kratom every day, for as we all should know, Poppies and their exudate sap was the secret reason for almost all wars, even up to today. Tea was drank but not really spoken of, and not written about much, (ahem.) In other words, almost the entire old world drank opium, (especially artists, soldiers, samurais, etc.) Now you can drink the tea on and off without ill effects, but if I were you I would not implement it or Kratom, (for similar, less intense reasons,) for every day use. Maybe 7 days out of the month, one cup of tea a day will not hinder thee at all for that period of time. 😉

🍸 (but not so intensely as the icon suggests. A glass of burgundy is enough for a night.)

The commentary to the Liber V ritual. Last paragraph. 😀

@gmugmble said

"
@Michael Staley said
"(extracts from these letters were published in the fifth issue of Starfire in 1994)."

Which of course is unavailable. 😞"

That issue of Starfire does come up on the second-hand market from time to time. The extracts were published in the course of an article entitled 'It's an Ill Wind that Bloweth'. Although the article does not appear in Ecpyrosis - a selection of essays and artwork from the first five issues of Starfire - it is available online on Peter Koenig's website.

@Frater 639 said

"What would you consider a fact then?"

A data unit.

By etymology, a fact would necessarily be true, because it basically means "a thing done." However, in actual usage, the actual truth of the fact is irrelevant to it being a fact. For example, an allegation is one type of fact.

"EDIT: I guess I'm asking what your definition is of both, or at least the difference between fact and truth...or an example of their relationship, so I can understand more clearly."

Truth is authenticity. (Or, there are different layers of truth according to [say] the Four Worlds, e.g., truth is actual in the World of Action.) Facts are neither necessarily true, nor (especially!) always used in the support of truth.

93,

Thanks for the answers, Jim. I have a few more questions, if you'll indulge me. 😄

@Jim Eshelman said

"In other words, she never examined the evidence and wasn't about to change her mind about something in which she had invested most of her life."

I understand this POV and am very familiar with it...since I find myself doing the same thing sometimes. But, there is something to be said for developing your own model of "observation". My difficulty is trying to isolate the "point of departure" from what I've heard you call "astromancy" -- that is, when I start to use more "intuition" in the reading, rather than the "science" of the chart itself. I guess this is where experience is the guide.

I can see how a set of symbols (in the Tropical model or otherwise) could be hard to alter after years of development, if favoring one system over the other...

Drawing charts using both models I think is invaluable. I have to say though, there seems to be much more "success" (from my own experience) using the Sidereal model -- the foreground, middlegorund, background influences seem foolproof. Comparing side-by-side is a worthy experiment to dispel the biases involved. How did you get into/go about learning the Sidereal method? What specifically sold you on the Sidereal method?

I'm sure you've indulged your own theories as to why results can be gained from both models (Tropical/Sidereal). I'd really be interested to hear what you think the factors involved are. How much influence do you think is meme or egregore? How much influence would you consider to be a more "tangible" or currently measurable factor, such as the physical conditions, atmosphere, environment, etc.? Do you think that any Tropical methods are still useful, or do you think that they just reflect information that isn't completely antiquated? Or, if you have already written on this subject, where could I find it?

@Jim Eshelman said

"No, I don't deserve to be put in the same category as Fagan and Bradley, or anyone else on this page:"

😆 Well, I personally think you do...but maybe for different reasons. I find your writing to be extremely colloquial...not to mention, I consider you a lot like Crowley (maybe more LATER years Crowley 😉) in that a HUGE strength in your writing is being able to gather and consolidate information and make it accessible, personable, and best of all, USEFUL...especially from an "Initiate's" POV.

As soon as I get your books, I have to give them away, and buy them again, and then give them away. All astrology aside, there seems to be a cycle that the data reflects. 😆

93 93/93

"Neither I, nor man, nor woman, nor God:
Wandering Alone
Singing of Nothing
Turning the Wheel of the Expression
From the Night springs Sighs of Eternity.

This is Our Love:
That every Touch is Our Conversation and Worship
That every Breath is an Act of God
That every Word is the Source of Glory and Beauty
Our Light devours All.

This is My Strength and Power:
I am Virgin to Thee, O My Genius
All else is a snare
We see only Our Will in Our Universe
According to Our Form, Our Plan.

Every Change is an Act of Will:
Our Pure Joy, combining unto Death
Expiring in each other’s arms
Our Other Phase, Our Compliment of Shadow
By the Death of Us, Becoming Not again.

With my Right Eye I create All
With my Left Eye I accept All
Love And Will Is Our Word
The Unbroken Circle of No Difference
Unto Perfection for All of Eternity

My Servant
My Lover
My God
Unto the No Age
Throughout the Ages
I am come to Thee

Amen."

Beautiful.

@P is for Pomegranate said

"
@Frater 639 said
"
oundcloud.com/lostarkstudio/pa ... ika-davies"

Excellent, cheers."

THANKS! 😀

93,

Wow. Thanks for the posting. Just so you know, we have a correlation. 😀

@danica said

"57. Sun - Gentleness which is all-permeating/penetrating (the idea of Babalon and the Beast combined 5 and 4) = Teth"

I've noted the same for ATU XI. When working with the attributions, I have included the related averse hexagram for the Paths, based on the 32 sephirot and paths to the 64 hexagram ratio, as the two aspects of the Path (Kether is in Malkuth, only after another "aspect") seem to work nicely. So, for the Path of Teth, I also include 58. the Joyous, which is a good compliment (although averse) to 57. for the Beast and Bride uniting! 😀 Approaching each Path with a "double-wanded" subject/object perspective (as each Trump can be viewed averse or upright in a reading), seems to work well for me.

@danica said

"62. Hsiao Kuo - Preponderance of the Small (the idea is: „something that comes out of transgression from the middle“; „this hexagram deals with transitional states, exceptional states“; the idea of mutation)"

I attribute this to Yesod. The symmetrical hexagrams fit nicely as the Sephirot (as above, so below) and tend correlate in eerie ways. In any event, your notes above seem to "reflect" the aspects of mind (Yesod), too. 😀

I'll post some more of the attributions I've worked out...and I'd love some comments on the above.

Thanks again for your post. I really appreciate it! 😀

Love is the law, love under will.

thanks for sharing, Frater 639

some metaphysical comments:

"...it cannot perceive any more differences. It would simply Be. With nothing to relate to, it has no point of reference. ..."

I would'nt agree on this. Kether simply IS, and the Fool represents the being in motion - the first swirling of it, poetically speaking. so the Fool relates to the pure being (kether) and the Many-the all-everything (not everything else, but everything from, i.e. that emanates from the One).

'something' that has no point of reference is not - the closest we could say of 'it' is the negative qualification.
but the Fool definitelly is. it is as 'close to' Nothing as Kether is; but it the Magician stands to Nothing in exactly the same 'aproximity'. (because there is not time 'here' and no first between the two of them in that sense)

"...This innocence is before any formation of relation."

we can not comprehend with our mind something that has no relation (that's the nature of the mind). even Kether is in relation - to Nothing. so the Fool is not without any relation (but I see it as without formation, if we consider only the Fool and not the whole upper triad; the Magician is Fool's counterpart and he forms that which Kether is and the Fool 'moves' so to speak), it itself is a relation - of the Crown (One, Point, Being) with the existance of Many (in the most abstract meaning of this word). but there is no way to understand 😄 the Fool without the Magician (or Chokmah without Binah, and vice versa)
......

a lot of what you have said about Fool here I see as pertaining to Kether. but it is the relation of Kether 'with' Chokmah, so (if we agree to see it as different from Kether) we have to look at it as such and as the 'first of the relations in the Existing/the Being/the One' [first taken in out-of-time metaphysical sense*, and the Existing/ the One taken as not-None].
*if we percieve the One as Yod, the Fool would be Yod (seed) in motion - differentiation of it, so it is that which creates time. singularity in terms of contemporary physics is a good example.

Thanks, Jim. 😄

Love is the law, love under will.